1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,510 [Music] 2 00:00:08,710 --> 00:00:06,789 there's a whole fleet of them look on 3 00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:08,720 the assay 4 00:00:14,310 --> 00:00:10,960 oh my gosh they're all going against the 5 00:00:18,950 --> 00:00:16,390 it was basically a cube with inside of 6 00:00:23,940 --> 00:00:18,960 sphere where the points of the cube 7 00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:33,200 [Music] 8 00:00:38,709 --> 00:00:37,120 [Applause] 9 00:00:40,950 --> 00:00:38,719 so this isn't anything that just is 10 00:00:48,950 --> 00:00:40,960 limited to the united states it's a 11 00:00:54,150 --> 00:00:51,430 hi everyone and welcome to that ufo 12 00:00:55,750 --> 00:00:54,160 podcast my name is andy and very much 13 00:00:57,110 --> 00:00:55,760 looking forward to introducing this 14 00:00:59,430 --> 00:00:57,120 week's guest 15 00:01:02,549 --> 00:00:59,440 as you all know it's been long overdue i 16 00:01:04,869 --> 00:01:02,559 have author researcher my uap media 17 00:01:06,789 --> 00:01:04,879 colleague and of course friend mr graham 18 00:01:08,070 --> 00:01:06,799 rendell joining me graham long time no 19 00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:08,080 speak 20 00:01:13,109 --> 00:01:10,640 yeah andy just a few days ago wasn't it 21 00:01:16,070 --> 00:01:13,119 uh it seems just like that it seems just 22 00:01:18,310 --> 00:01:16,080 a few days ago uh graham recently we got 23 00:01:19,990 --> 00:01:18,320 to meet face to face for the second time 24 00:01:21,830 --> 00:01:20,000 uh we're actually the only people from 25 00:01:25,190 --> 00:01:21,840 uap media that have met well actually 26 00:01:26,550 --> 00:01:25,200 dan and dave once met um for a catch-up 27 00:01:28,469 --> 00:01:26,560 which was nice but we're all going to be 28 00:01:30,149 --> 00:01:28,479 meeting up in a couple of weeks for a 29 00:01:32,230 --> 00:01:30,159 little get-together in london which i'm 30 00:01:34,069 --> 00:01:32,240 very much looking forward to but we've 31 00:01:35,830 --> 00:01:34,079 shared a coffee and we've also shared a 32 00:01:36,950 --> 00:01:35,840 road trip now haven't we we went to 33 00:01:39,030 --> 00:01:36,960 preston 34 00:01:41,749 --> 00:01:39,040 for the ufo minicon which was a pretty 35 00:01:43,429 --> 00:01:41,759 enjoyable it was yeah it was a great day 36 00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:43,439 but it was also a good opportunity to 37 00:01:47,270 --> 00:01:45,200 have a good chat on the way down and on 38 00:01:49,270 --> 00:01:47,280 the way back so yeah it was it was a 39 00:01:50,870 --> 00:01:49,280 worthwhile day all around and it was 40 00:01:53,590 --> 00:01:50,880 nice to meet some of the listeners as 41 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:53,600 well nick as we drove up and got out the 42 00:01:58,149 --> 00:01:55,600 car had one of dan's t-shirts on which 43 00:02:01,510 --> 00:01:58,159 was extremely surreal to see it in the 44 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:01,520 flesh and and not virtually uh we talked 45 00:02:05,590 --> 00:02:03,600 to frank from the ufo thinker podcast 46 00:02:07,429 --> 00:02:05,600 barry was there dave was there and i 47 00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:07,439 hope i've not missed anyone else so ash 48 00:02:11,750 --> 00:02:09,679 of course abigail who put on the the 49 00:02:13,030 --> 00:02:11,760 event and it was a lot of fun so i 50 00:02:14,630 --> 00:02:13,040 really enjoyed that and look forward to 51 00:02:16,630 --> 00:02:14,640 kind of getting to more of those and 52 00:02:18,710 --> 00:02:16,640 getting to meet more people and the 53 00:02:21,030 --> 00:02:18,720 hopefully not too distant future and 54 00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:21,040 maybe eventually getting across the pond 55 00:02:24,869 --> 00:02:23,280 as well to the states that would be that 56 00:02:26,309 --> 00:02:24,879 would be pretty cool to do that one day 57 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:26,319 as well wouldn't it 58 00:02:30,070 --> 00:02:28,720 it certainly would yeah uh i really look 59 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:30,080 forward to the time where we can do that 60 00:02:32,869 --> 00:02:31,200 kind of thing 61 00:02:34,790 --> 00:02:32,879 well if enough people buy your book 62 00:02:36,390 --> 00:02:34,800 you'll be able to afford flights over 63 00:02:39,270 --> 00:02:36,400 graham and we're going to be talking 64 00:02:42,309 --> 00:02:39,280 about your book which is ufos before 65 00:02:43,910 --> 00:02:42,319 roswell european foo fighters 1948 and 66 00:02:45,670 --> 00:02:43,920 1945 67 00:02:47,589 --> 00:02:45,680 people will not believe i didn't plan 68 00:02:49,670 --> 00:02:47,599 that graham but there you go uh it's 69 00:02:51,190 --> 00:02:49,680 just just skill i think 70 00:02:53,750 --> 00:02:51,200 and graham rendell is of course the 71 00:02:56,710 --> 00:02:53,760 author forward by the wonderful mr sean 72 00:02:58,869 --> 00:02:56,720 cahill and for anyone listening yes sean 73 00:03:01,589 --> 00:02:58,879 cahill is the artist who records the 74 00:03:02,949 --> 00:03:01,599 outro to the podcast so that funky tune 75 00:03:05,030 --> 00:03:02,959 everyone gets in touch with me 76 00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:05,040 constantly throughout the week as uh 77 00:03:09,350 --> 00:03:07,280 sean cahill slash minty hyperspace and 78 00:03:11,750 --> 00:03:09,360 it's called goblin problems i should 79 00:03:13,910 --> 00:03:11,760 probably fit that one in just now and uh 80 00:03:16,309 --> 00:03:13,920 i would love for sean to one day do an 81 00:03:18,390 --> 00:03:16,319 acoustic version or a live performance 82 00:03:20,630 --> 00:03:18,400 on the podcast that would be pretty good 83 00:03:23,270 --> 00:03:20,640 but listen graeme this show is all about 84 00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:23,280 and all for you and i want to find out a 85 00:03:26,550 --> 00:03:25,120 little bit about you the man behind the 86 00:03:28,550 --> 00:03:26,560 book obviously so can you tell the 87 00:03:30,949 --> 00:03:28,560 listeners graham a little bit about your 88 00:03:33,110 --> 00:03:30,959 background and do you know what what's 89 00:03:34,309 --> 00:03:33,120 brought you to writing books about ufos 90 00:03:36,229 --> 00:03:34,319 and also we're going to talk a little 91 00:03:38,070 --> 00:03:36,239 bit about some of the fascinating places 92 00:03:40,309 --> 00:03:38,080 you've traveled to 93 00:03:42,070 --> 00:03:40,319 okay so from an early age about four or 94 00:03:44,390 --> 00:03:42,080 five years old my mom started buying me 95 00:03:45,750 --> 00:03:44,400 airfix kits of model aircraft basically 96 00:03:46,470 --> 00:03:45,760 keep me quiet just keep me out of the 97 00:03:48,630 --> 00:03:46,480 way 98 00:03:50,229 --> 00:03:48,640 um now those air those models had little 99 00:03:51,509 --> 00:03:50,239 pocket histories of the aircraft that 100 00:03:53,110 --> 00:03:51,519 you were building so it was like a 101 00:03:54,869 --> 00:03:53,120 little history a couple of paragraphs 102 00:03:57,830 --> 00:03:54,879 only but that got was enough to get my 103 00:03:59,270 --> 00:03:57,840 interest in aircraft started and after 104 00:04:00,789 --> 00:03:59,280 that i just wanted to read everything i 105 00:04:02,470 --> 00:04:00,799 could find so that was books you know 106 00:04:03,910 --> 00:04:02,480 magazines all the rest of it go in the 107 00:04:05,910 --> 00:04:03,920 library getting them for christmas uh 108 00:04:07,750 --> 00:04:05,920 presents and birthday presents so i just 109 00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:07,760 built up a big library and a lot of 110 00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:10,080 information about airplanes that took me 111 00:04:13,990 --> 00:04:12,000 into the war as well because my mother 112 00:04:15,509 --> 00:04:14,000 and my father had lived through it and i 113 00:04:17,670 --> 00:04:15,519 was regaled with tales of you know 114 00:04:19,990 --> 00:04:17,680 bombing raids and all this kind of thing 115 00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:20,000 so my interest kick started in the war 116 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:21,840 that way as well and then i was 117 00:04:25,189 --> 00:04:23,440 interested in science fiction from about 118 00:04:27,990 --> 00:04:25,199 maybe i don't know seven eight eight 119 00:04:29,430 --> 00:04:28,000 nine years old um and mastered a library 120 00:04:31,189 --> 00:04:29,440 of science fiction books which had nice 121 00:04:32,629 --> 00:04:31,199 pictures of spacecraft on the front and 122 00:04:34,310 --> 00:04:32,639 my mum thought she was doing me a favor 123 00:04:35,909 --> 00:04:34,320 one day and she bought me a book which 124 00:04:37,030 --> 00:04:35,919 had a flying saucer on the front of it 125 00:04:39,030 --> 00:04:37,040 she thought was another one of these 126 00:04:40,550 --> 00:04:39,040 eyes like asm of novels which i was 127 00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:40,560 reading um 128 00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:43,280 at that time it wasn't it was a book by 129 00:04:47,590 --> 00:04:45,120 uh brinsley of polar trench it was 130 00:04:50,310 --> 00:04:47,600 mysterious visitors and it was a ufo 131 00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:50,320 book and that's how my interest in ufos 132 00:04:55,270 --> 00:04:52,720 start because because that's that really 133 00:04:56,870 --> 00:04:55,280 really fired up my imagination onto 134 00:04:58,150 --> 00:04:56,880 things that could be 135 00:05:00,070 --> 00:04:58,160 you know all the things i was reading 136 00:05:02,390 --> 00:05:00,080 about in science fiction novels seemed 137 00:05:04,310 --> 00:05:02,400 to be actually true you know spacecraft 138 00:05:06,230 --> 00:05:04,320 from other worlds aliens all that kind 139 00:05:08,469 --> 00:05:06,240 of thing so it was a yeah it was it was 140 00:05:09,909 --> 00:05:08,479 it was a revelation really it and 141 00:05:11,189 --> 00:05:09,919 something that's never really left me to 142 00:05:13,430 --> 00:05:11,199 this day 143 00:05:15,270 --> 00:05:13,440 and you've grown up in a time then where 144 00:05:17,029 --> 00:05:15,280 science fiction is becoming extremely 145 00:05:18,870 --> 00:05:17,039 popular that was a bit of a boom period 146 00:05:20,870 --> 00:05:18,880 we're looking i don't want to get your 147 00:05:23,749 --> 00:05:20,880 age badly wrong here graham but we're 148 00:05:26,390 --> 00:05:23,759 late 60s early 70s we had the star trek 149 00:05:27,909 --> 00:05:26,400 series was big and a lot of other huge 150 00:05:29,990 --> 00:05:27,919 sci-fi shows that would have of course 151 00:05:31,909 --> 00:05:30,000 still been on television going forward 152 00:05:33,189 --> 00:05:31,919 the books the magazines and all that 153 00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:33,199 stuff that would have been around that 154 00:05:37,510 --> 00:05:34,720 so you can see where that interest has 155 00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:37,520 come from but growing up you you managed 156 00:05:41,350 --> 00:05:39,600 to get to some fascinating places and 157 00:05:43,270 --> 00:05:41,360 your your first book that was published 158 00:05:45,029 --> 00:05:43,280 earlier on this year was all about 159 00:05:46,550 --> 00:05:45,039 siberia and it was quite a niche book 160 00:05:47,990 --> 00:05:46,560 which we discussed obviously on our 161 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:48,000 travels you want to tell the listeners a 162 00:05:52,629 --> 00:05:49,840 little bit about that 163 00:05:55,110 --> 00:05:52,639 yeah um at the end of 1991 i actually 164 00:05:57,189 --> 00:05:55,120 had the chance to uh sign up for a trip 165 00:06:00,070 --> 00:05:57,199 around northeastern siberia in the 166 00:06:01,830 --> 00:06:00,080 summer of 1992. so at the end of june 167 00:06:03,990 --> 00:06:01,840 that year i traveled out with about 168 00:06:05,670 --> 00:06:04,000 another sort of 30 or 40 people who had 169 00:06:08,150 --> 00:06:05,680 signed up for this venture and we all 170 00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:08,160 had the money pooled so we could hire 171 00:06:12,070 --> 00:06:10,080 what was actually an iceberg spotting 172 00:06:14,390 --> 00:06:12,080 aircraft that had been used by polar 173 00:06:16,950 --> 00:06:14,400 aviation of aeroflot 174 00:06:19,189 --> 00:06:16,960 and we went round a lot of northeastern 175 00:06:21,029 --> 00:06:19,199 siberian airfields we had to leave that 176 00:06:22,950 --> 00:06:21,039 aircraft at another base because it was 177 00:06:25,510 --> 00:06:22,960 too big to get into some of these little 178 00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:25,520 gravel fields that we were flying into 179 00:06:27,990 --> 00:06:26,800 and you had like you know the gravel 180 00:06:29,670 --> 00:06:28,000 from the strip was bouncing off the 181 00:06:30,870 --> 00:06:29,680 propeller blades and all that kind of 182 00:06:32,629 --> 00:06:30,880 things were flying into these little 183 00:06:34,150 --> 00:06:32,639 strips and this was actually right up 184 00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:34,160 near the arctic coast it was only about 185 00:06:37,909 --> 00:06:35,520 an hour's maybe an hour and a half 186 00:06:40,150 --> 00:06:37,919 flying time from from alaska so it was a 187 00:06:41,830 --> 00:06:40,160 really remote part of the world uh we 188 00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:41,840 were flying over polar bears which 189 00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:43,600 looked like big dirty sheep you know 190 00:06:47,749 --> 00:06:46,240 that kind of thing so it was uh it was a 191 00:06:49,029 --> 00:06:47,759 very very strange time of course this 192 00:06:51,110 --> 00:06:49,039 was only six months after the fall of 193 00:06:52,150 --> 00:06:51,120 the soviet union so it was a weird time 194 00:06:54,550 --> 00:06:52,160 in terms of 195 00:06:56,710 --> 00:06:54,560 what they what they would let us do um 196 00:06:59,350 --> 00:06:56,720 so we got into some really kind of odd 197 00:07:00,950 --> 00:06:59,360 places which westerners just hadn't got 198 00:07:02,150 --> 00:07:00,960 here before and we're probably the one 199 00:07:03,909 --> 00:07:02,160 the last bill i've got there as well 200 00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:03,919 because no nobody else as far as i'm 201 00:07:07,830 --> 00:07:05,840 aware visited the places that we 202 00:07:10,150 --> 00:07:07,840 actually got to so that book that i 203 00:07:12,710 --> 00:07:10,160 wrote is a kind of travelogue it's not 204 00:07:14,070 --> 00:07:12,720 just for aircraft enthusiasts it's a 205 00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:14,080 real book about you know traveling to 206 00:07:17,670 --> 00:07:15,360 one of the last wildernesses on the 207 00:07:19,510 --> 00:07:17,680 planet so yeah it's um i like to think 208 00:07:21,270 --> 00:07:19,520 it's a really good read but it covers a 209 00:07:23,189 --> 00:07:21,280 couple of bases so people are interested 210 00:07:24,309 --> 00:07:23,199 in russian aircraft and the soviet union 211 00:07:25,430 --> 00:07:24,319 there's something for them in there as 212 00:07:27,029 --> 00:07:25,440 well 213 00:07:29,589 --> 00:07:27,039 and that book is to the ends of the 214 00:07:31,270 --> 00:07:29,599 earth have i remembered that correctly 215 00:07:32,629 --> 00:07:31,280 that's right yes 216 00:07:33,990 --> 00:07:32,639 excellent i've not got that written down 217 00:07:36,230 --> 00:07:34,000 in front of me right off the top of my 218 00:07:37,830 --> 00:07:36,240 head there graham now yeah again if you 219 00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:37,840 people want to check that one out it's 220 00:07:41,029 --> 00:07:39,599 very niche but fascinating place some 221 00:07:42,790 --> 00:07:41,039 really interesting pictures in there as 222 00:07:44,469 --> 00:07:42,800 well i love everyone likes a picture 223 00:07:46,390 --> 00:07:44,479 book to flick through too so there's 224 00:07:48,390 --> 00:07:46,400 some pretty cool images in there as well 225 00:07:50,070 --> 00:07:48,400 but graeme that's then brought you to 226 00:07:52,469 --> 00:07:50,080 you've written that book you've also got 227 00:07:54,469 --> 00:07:52,479 a test for it and you're a very 228 00:07:55,670 --> 00:07:54,479 very good is very capable offer the 229 00:07:57,990 --> 00:07:55,680 right way to say it because i've never 230 00:07:59,589 --> 00:07:58,000 written a book but you write very well 231 00:08:01,589 --> 00:07:59,599 and you've not had anyone write it for 232 00:08:03,189 --> 00:08:01,599 you you've then gone on to very quickly 233 00:08:05,510 --> 00:08:03,199 write another book which of course is 234 00:08:08,390 --> 00:08:05,520 what we discussed before ufos before 235 00:08:10,150 --> 00:08:08,400 roswell european foo fighters 1940 to 236 00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:10,160 1945. 237 00:08:14,790 --> 00:08:12,800 what brought you to then move on from 238 00:08:18,710 --> 00:08:14,800 writing about northeastern siberian 239 00:08:20,629 --> 00:08:18,720 airfields to ufos in the 1940s 240 00:08:21,909 --> 00:08:20,639 as we said before i grew up in a time 241 00:08:23,189 --> 00:08:21,919 when um 242 00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:23,199 science fiction was quite on the 243 00:08:27,270 --> 00:08:25,280 ascendant but also ufo books were as 244 00:08:29,189 --> 00:08:27,280 well so you had a kind of golden age in 245 00:08:30,790 --> 00:08:29,199 this in the 50s and 60s where people 246 00:08:32,790 --> 00:08:30,800 were just getting into kind of writing 247 00:08:35,029 --> 00:08:32,800 about ufos but things have settled down 248 00:08:36,870 --> 00:08:35,039 by the 70s and 80s and you were seeing a 249 00:08:38,709 --> 00:08:36,880 kind of chronology of 250 00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:38,719 events that were happening so you'd get 251 00:08:42,949 --> 00:08:41,039 the mystery airships in the 1890s you 252 00:08:45,350 --> 00:08:42,959 have them the ghost aircraft from the 253 00:08:46,790 --> 00:08:45,360 20s and 30s but then would be this gap 254 00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:46,800 of the second world war and it would 255 00:08:51,509 --> 00:08:48,800 just leap straight across to the ghost 256 00:08:53,829 --> 00:08:51,519 rockets of 1946 and then to kenneth 257 00:08:56,949 --> 00:08:53,839 arnold and roswell in 1947 and there was 258 00:08:58,150 --> 00:08:56,959 this kind of six year gap from 39 to 45 259 00:08:59,990 --> 00:08:58,160 and of course that was a period of time 260 00:09:01,430 --> 00:09:00,000 i was really interested in given the 261 00:09:03,750 --> 00:09:01,440 fact that i was interested in both 262 00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:03,760 aviation and world war ii so 263 00:09:07,190 --> 00:09:05,440 you just kind of thought well 264 00:09:08,949 --> 00:09:07,200 why is this why is this gap why are 265 00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:08,959 there no reports from there actually it 266 00:09:12,949 --> 00:09:10,560 turned out there were it was only a 267 00:09:14,710 --> 00:09:12,959 handful and they were based on a one 268 00:09:17,430 --> 00:09:14,720 particular magazine article from 269 00:09:19,750 --> 00:09:17,440 december 1945 where it had half a dozen 270 00:09:21,509 --> 00:09:19,760 reports from a u.s night fighter 271 00:09:24,150 --> 00:09:21,519 squadron based in france in over the 272 00:09:26,710 --> 00:09:24,160 winter of 44 45 plus a couple of reports 273 00:09:29,269 --> 00:09:26,720 from the pacific and one from a daylight 274 00:09:32,070 --> 00:09:29,279 um raid over germany in about i think it 275 00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:32,080 was 194 early 1945. and those nine 276 00:09:36,550 --> 00:09:34,240 reports were basically all people had to 277 00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:36,560 go on for about 50 years 278 00:09:39,990 --> 00:09:38,000 with the exception of a couple of other 279 00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:40,000 reports which came out of the woodwork 280 00:09:44,230 --> 00:09:42,000 and appeared in in 281 00:09:45,269 --> 00:09:44,240 books from by tim good and a few other 282 00:09:47,110 --> 00:09:45,279 authors 283 00:09:49,190 --> 00:09:47,120 and also if you looked at a few kind of 284 00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:49,200 niche publications like flying saucer 285 00:09:53,030 --> 00:09:51,040 review and a couple from the states 286 00:09:55,509 --> 00:09:53,040 there were a few other stories but they 287 00:09:57,590 --> 00:09:55,519 weren't widespread at all but so those 288 00:09:59,509 --> 00:09:57,600 like really small number of cases 289 00:10:01,030 --> 00:09:59,519 represented the entire foo fighters kind 290 00:10:03,190 --> 00:10:01,040 of phenomenon 291 00:10:05,350 --> 00:10:03,200 and i thought well come on that it can't 292 00:10:08,069 --> 00:10:05,360 just be that you know if you look across 293 00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:08,079 the last 70 years the ufo kind of 294 00:10:11,670 --> 00:10:09,680 phenomena has been really widespread 295 00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:11,680 right across the planet and you know 296 00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:13,600 lots of reports every year and yet the 297 00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:16,160 wartime has only got what nine like 10 298 00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:18,560 reports it didn't make any sense 299 00:10:22,069 --> 00:10:20,240 so i thought there must be more to it 300 00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:22,079 than just that but for years i haven't 301 00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:23,120 really been in the position to do 302 00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:24,480 anything about it for work except for 303 00:10:28,550 --> 00:10:26,320 things like that just have another time 304 00:10:30,389 --> 00:10:28,560 um but at the start of the year or just 305 00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:30,399 before christmas i thought i thought 306 00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:31,360 yeah 307 00:10:34,150 --> 00:10:32,480 i might be able to try and find 308 00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:34,160 something here and i just set about 309 00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:36,560 trying to find some more cases beyond 310 00:10:41,509 --> 00:10:39,120 what was already in the public realm um 311 00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:41,519 and i just started finding things right 312 00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:43,040 really and that's where the germ of the 313 00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:44,560 book came from 314 00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:46,640 now before we get to talking about world 315 00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:49,760 war ii in 1940 to 1945 316 00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:51,839 was there anything reported during the 317 00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:53,680 previous world war 318 00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:55,760 yes there are the there was a buca i 319 00:10:59,590 --> 00:10:57,440 can't remember the title of it now but 320 00:11:01,350 --> 00:10:59,600 there is a book available and which does 321 00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:01,360 detail some of the weird things that 322 00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:03,600 were seen during the first world war um 323 00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:06,320 so there is uh and sean cahill actually 324 00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:08,720 mentioned this on on a podcast i was uh 325 00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,399 that he popped up on 326 00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:12,480 just this last weekend and he he 327 00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:14,000 believes there was a story of a 328 00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:16,240 tic-tac-shaped uh aircraft and a mother 329 00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:18,399 ship that was seen over 330 00:11:22,470 --> 00:11:20,959 over the battlefield in world war one so 331 00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:22,480 there are some interesting stories which 332 00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:24,079 have come out of there 333 00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:25,680 i'm not aware of them too much because 334 00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:27,440 that's not something i focused on but i 335 00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:29,600 am aware of the book itself and 336 00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:30,880 one day i hope to have a look at it and 337 00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:32,640 read it for myself just can't remember 338 00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:34,399 the title of it offhand 339 00:11:38,790 --> 00:11:36,320 graham you mentioned you're a child of 340 00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:38,800 that science fiction era you grew up in 341 00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:41,200 a real boom period for that particular 342 00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:44,000 genre but you people didn't necessarily 343 00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:46,240 have that sort of literature i'm going 344 00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:48,480 to quote yourself when we discussed this 345 00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:51,279 on kg ra that the lexicon at the time 346 00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:53,040 the language of the time we didn't 347 00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:55,600 really have flying saucers were people 348 00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:58,560 talking about aliens or or spaceships 349 00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:01,600 even back then in the 40s and before 350 00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:03,120 only a few people were but there wasn't 351 00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:04,959 many and it certainly wasn't widespread 352 00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:06,959 so the actual kind of um you know 353 00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,959 people's mindset was never towards 354 00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:10,560 things like that and of course when it 355 00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:12,079 came to the war when they were 356 00:12:14,949 --> 00:12:13,360 experiencing things that they couldn't 357 00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:14,959 understand that was the last thing on 358 00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:16,399 the mind in fact it wasn't even on their 359 00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:19,120 minds at all so everything was couched 360 00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:21,440 in the language of german secret weapons 361 00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:23,200 rather than aliens rather than flying 362 00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:25,120 sources rather than beings from another 363 00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:26,800 world all those things 364 00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:28,639 never ever featured if you look through 365 00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,399 the intelligence reports and all the 366 00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:32,560 other information from back then 367 00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:35,279 nothing is ever mentioned about the 368 00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:36,480 possibility of these being from 369 00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:39,680 somewhere else now you mentioned the you 370 00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:41,839 know german secret weaponry potentially 371 00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:44,000 at the point it was a time where the 372 00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:47,519 skies were filled with rockets bombs 373 00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:49,600 various flashes strange lights that 374 00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,519 people wouldn't have been used to seeing 375 00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:54,160 and a whole range of different aircraft 376 00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:56,079 from from various different countries 377 00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:57,360 throughout the world 378 00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:59,440 was it difficult at the time for people 379 00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:01,279 to spot something that was potentially 380 00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:03,200 anomalous and how have you come to 381 00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,320 picking those reports that have 382 00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:06,000 eventually ended up as cases in your 383 00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:07,279 book 384 00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:09,600 the the crews were very well trained so 385 00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:10,880 when they went through basic training 386 00:13:14,550 --> 00:13:12,480 they were giving a lot of ground 387 00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:14,560 lectures on the different types of enemy 388 00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:16,800 aircraft and also their own aircraft so 389 00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:19,040 they didn't shoot their own side down so 390 00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:21,120 you had hours and hours and hours of 391 00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:22,560 training before they would let them up 392 00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:24,639 in the air so that wasn't just pilots 393 00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:26,560 that would be navigators for gunners you 394 00:13:30,389 --> 00:13:28,480 know bombay knows everybody who went up 395 00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:30,399 in the air had at least you know the 396 00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:32,079 kind of modicum of training so they 397 00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:33,519 could spot what they were going to see 398 00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:35,200 up there so it didn't become like too 399 00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:37,839 much of a kind of of a new thing so they 400 00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,959 would know that know the difference 401 00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:40,880 between a spitfire or a measurement you 402 00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:43,360 know or a henkel or a dornier um and 403 00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:45,680 that was all just like you know kind of 404 00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:47,360 thrown at them all the time until the 405 00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,959 head you know until there is blood kind 406 00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:50,959 of thing so when they went up they were 407 00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:52,880 well prepared for what they would see 408 00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:54,160 and of course when you went to a 409 00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:55,440 squadron there was always people who won 410 00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:57,199 the squadron before you so you always 411 00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:58,880 got to know about what was going to be 412 00:14:02,310 --> 00:14:00,560 in there before you even got airborne 413 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:02,320 because people talk to each other and 414 00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:04,160 you had intelligence briefings before 415 00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:06,399 you end up in the air anyway so you got 416 00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:09,040 an idea what to expect but as people did 417 00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:10,560 mission after mission providing the word 418 00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:12,399 shot down or killed 419 00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,399 then they actually got to know what was 420 00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:16,240 happening in any case so they could tell 421 00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:18,240 the difference between allied targeting 422 00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,480 flares which like the green yellow red 423 00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:22,800 blue lights that were dropped on targets 424 00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:24,320 to make sure that you know the bomb we 425 00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:25,519 were dropping our bombs in the right 426 00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:28,000 place the germans had decoy flares but 427 00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:30,160 they were much lower down and because of 428 00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:32,240 the delivery system they employed they 429 00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:34,399 also used things called fighter flares 430 00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,320 which were um dropped just above the 431 00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,240 cloud layer to silhouette the bombers 432 00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,160 for their own night fighters but they 433 00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,480 were known phenomenon so all these 434 00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,560 things they did actually know what they 435 00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:46,720 were and they are reported in the 436 00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,000 official information because you 437 00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,920 mentioned about how i found this 438 00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:52,000 information out so you can see all this 439 00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:54,079 information listed because the squadron 440 00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:55,440 reporting 441 00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:57,519 on the whole is pretty good however it 442 00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:00,320 can be patchy so on the best reports 443 00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,680 that some of the best squadrons where 444 00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:03,680 they have the most diligent staff in 445 00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:05,839 terms of recording what was going on for 446 00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,839 each mission for each aircraft you get a 447 00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,839 lot of information you don't just get 448 00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,279 that information about the stuff that 449 00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,959 they knew so about the time they dropped 450 00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:14,880 their bombs and how much uh kind of 451 00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:16,240 night fighter activity there was and 452 00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,959 flak activity and um you know the times 453 00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:20,240 that they took off from the land and all 454 00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,440 this kind of stuff 455 00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,040 then there's also information about this 456 00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:25,120 kind of weird thing so um kind of what 457 00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,800 they called rockets which would zigzag 458 00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:28,480 after the aircraft all these strange 459 00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:29,360 lights 460 00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,639 and some other things as well there's a 461 00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:32,880 whole gamut of like strange weird 462 00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:34,240 phenomenon that was listed in some of 463 00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:36,480 these really good reports but then other 464 00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:38,959 squadrons of course weren't so diligent 465 00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,959 in the reporting of the intelligence 466 00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:42,880 information in the official files so 467 00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:45,040 you'd get summaries for one raid rather 468 00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:46,720 than individual aircraft that 469 00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:48,639 participated and then in some of the 470 00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:51,440 other squadrons you get next to nothing 471 00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:53,600 so you wouldn't even get the luxury of 472 00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:54,720 reading through a summary of what 473 00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:56,720 happened for that particular raid so 474 00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,759 those 475 00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:59,600 last two categories 476 00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,279 you'd probably think there might be some 477 00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:03,360 actual reports tucked away in there but 478 00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:04,560 for the fact that we're never actually 479 00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:05,839 written down 480 00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,240 and then when you look at some of the um 481 00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:10,240 the more widely reported cases the ones 482 00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:12,639 that actually did make some of the ufo 483 00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:14,880 books in the 90s and then you try and 484 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,480 track down those squadrons that were 485 00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:18,720 involved and find the personnel and find 486 00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:20,639 a raid and look into those 487 00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:22,320 actually they're not listed either and 488 00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:24,160 it's just down to the pilot because for 489 00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,639 some reason or whoever whoever witnessed 490 00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,320 it but that information is not even in 491 00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:30,160 the squadron records either but it turns 492 00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:31,360 out that you know people have actually 493 00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:33,279 talked about it after the war but some 494 00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:35,040 of the stories are in the official in 495 00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:36,880 the official documentation as well so 496 00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:38,880 there's a whole you know a lot of things 497 00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:41,279 going on here there's no one hard and 498 00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:43,279 fast rule for everything that actually 499 00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:45,920 happened um so we're just lucky that 500 00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:47,440 actually i managed to find as much as i 501 00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,880 did now 502 00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,399 all the stuff i talked about before 503 00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:52,560 about the american uh sightings that 504 00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:54,320 kind of group that were in that magazine 505 00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:56,000 article and some of the stuff that 506 00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:57,440 happened in the books afterwards well 507 00:17:00,790 --> 00:16:58,880 there have been things added to that 508 00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:00,800 keith chester wrote a great book called 509 00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:03,600 strange company back in 2007 and that 510 00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,280 was probably the one of the first books 511 00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:07,360 that actually had anything beyond those 512 00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:09,280 particular that small subset of 513 00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:11,360 information about the foo fighters and 514 00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:13,439 he had some really good cases in there 515 00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:15,199 um when i looked at it 516 00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:17,120 unfortunately i found some errors i 517 00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:18,480 found some errors in terms of the year 518 00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:20,240 over sighting and some other dates and 519 00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:23,360 some names and types of aircraft so when 520 00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,600 i dug into it um you know i managed to 521 00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:27,600 rectify those things for my book but 522 00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:31,120 also i found a whole lot more as well um 523 00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:32,640 there were stories from the balkans in 524 00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:35,600 1944 that were never ever listed 525 00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:37,520 anywhere else and yet that squadron 526 00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:39,280 information the squadron information for 527 00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:42,320 those units is great it's really well 528 00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:43,919 documented and they've got story after 529 00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,919 story after story of these strange 530 00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:47,760 lights and what they called rockets 531 00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:49,440 chasing after aircraft and those are 532 00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:51,200 really good those are really good tales 533 00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,799 which i include in the book 534 00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,720 let me ask him 535 00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:56,160 when we talk about secret german 536 00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:58,799 technology there are all sorts of wild 537 00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,200 and crazy rumors around you know the 538 00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:03,360 most famous ones like diglocker you know 539 00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:04,960 the the bell aircraft they were looking 540 00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:06,640 at various different hovercraft that 541 00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,640 were being experimented with 542 00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:11,120 how much stock do you put into 543 00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:12,960 a lot of this being german secret 544 00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:15,520 technology is it mostly rumored because 545 00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:17,840 surely if they had even 546 00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:19,919 a fraction of the technology that is 547 00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:22,080 rumored or written about the outcome of 548 00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:24,080 the war would have been very different 549 00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:25,360 well do you think so wouldn't you 550 00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:27,679 there's a i'll just quote an example in 551 00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:29,600 terms of how actually the germans were 552 00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:31,200 going backwards at the end of the war 553 00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,480 everybody seems to think they had all 554 00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,080 this super secret technology and he was 555 00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:36,640 just on the point of getting fielded now 556 00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:38,400 that was true to a certain point until 557 00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:39,919 about the last nine months of the war 558 00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:41,360 but because of the pressure on german 559 00:18:44,789 --> 00:18:43,200 industry and german testing sites and 560 00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,799 all the rest of it they were actually 561 00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:46,640 going backwards they were exciting so 562 00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:48,000 desperate that they were looking back to 563 00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:49,760 things they'd already invented to try 564 00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:51,360 and strap onto aircraft in terms of 565 00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,440 engines just to get aircraft up in the 566 00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:56,000 air to attack our own bombers and things 567 00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:57,520 like that and they were they were 568 00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:58,880 experimenting with things that already 569 00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:01,600 decided weren't worth it like the pulse 570 00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:04,240 jet from a v1 flying bomb they were then 571 00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,160 because it worked out that that engine 572 00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:08,320 couldn't be used for a fighter aircraft 573 00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:10,160 because its performance dropped off 574 00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:11,440 after you went a few thousand feet up in 575 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:13,440 the air because the v1 didn't didn't fly 576 00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:15,440 that high and you couldn't take off with 577 00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,559 it because it didn't deliver enough 578 00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:18,240 power to get you airborne you had to use 579 00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,320 like an auxiliary type of power to get 580 00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:22,400 you up in the air in the first place 581 00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:24,559 the germans still started designing 582 00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:27,360 aircraft right over christmas 1944 that 583 00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:28,640 actually had these things as power 584 00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,799 plants and they were serious and trying 585 00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:32,160 to feel them even though it was a 586 00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:34,000 complete not a waste of time 587 00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:36,000 so there's a whole load of kind of 588 00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:37,280 things that you look at and the germans 589 00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:38,400 weren't actually as good as everybody 590 00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,240 thinks they were and then if you look at 591 00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:42,160 the history of flak rockets or 592 00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:43,679 anti-aircraft rockets service to our 593 00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,320 missiles you know as they were 594 00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:48,080 it was a very protracted campaign for 595 00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:49,600 trying to get these things into the air 596 00:19:53,669 --> 00:19:51,039 they didn't work properly they were they 597 00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:53,679 were um looking at things like guidance 598 00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:55,120 systems that they couldn't get their 599 00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:56,400 head around because it was all new 600 00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:58,559 technology so and they weren't getting 601 00:20:01,669 --> 00:20:00,240 to grips with it and these things were 602 00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,679 never fielded they were never put into 603 00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:03,360 operational service even though they had 604 00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:06,080 about 50 different types in development 605 00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:08,159 throughout the war so they spent they 606 00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:09,840 threw a lot of money a lot of resources 607 00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:11,600 and a lot of time and a lot of things 608 00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:13,679 which didn't work in the end or never 609 00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,799 got to the point where they could put 610 00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:17,120 them in service so it was a bit of a 611 00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:20,000 disaster really um and these these kind 612 00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:21,200 of resources could have been thrown at 613 00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:22,960 things which might have tipped the wall 614 00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:25,280 in terms of numbers but they just know 615 00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:26,640 that they splurged it on things like the 616 00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:28,880 v2 which actually wasn't that effective 617 00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,559 when you come when you look at it in you 618 00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,640 know in this kind of scientific way and 619 00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:34,400 the v1 flying bomb again which didn't 620 00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:35,840 you know didn't do huge amounts of 621 00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:38,159 damage in terms of the strategic sense 622 00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,720 so yeah um people give them too much 623 00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,559 credit for a lot of these things i go 624 00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:43,919 into a huge amount of detail in the book 625 00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,520 about the things that people have said 626 00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:47,600 the foo fighters were but turns out no 627 00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:48,880 that they weren't they couldn't have 628 00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:50,640 been for a whole variety of reasons 629 00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:52,000 which i haven't really got time to go 630 00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:53,360 into here 631 00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:55,360 now you mentioned just a few moments ago 632 00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:57,360 graham that the the pilots of the time 633 00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:00,240 were very highly trained now would that 634 00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:02,400 be 635 00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:04,799 highly trained comparatively of the time 636 00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:06,960 because we hear about today's top gun 637 00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:09,360 pilots your your david fray versus alex 638 00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:11,679 dietrich's your ryan graves that they 639 00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:13,120 are some of the you know the elite 640 00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,880 pilots in the world 641 00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,960 can we say that they compare to the 642 00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:19,120 pilots of the 40s would they compare to 643 00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,520 now or is it a totally different level 644 00:21:24,549 --> 00:21:22,880 it's a totally different level now 645 00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,559 because the technology today is so 646 00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:26,960 sophisticated that you can't just um 647 00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:29,440 train a pilot to fly a jet within a few 648 00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:31,360 hours and send them off in the air 649 00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:34,159 whereas say in 1940 uh when you know the 650 00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:35,600 battle of britain we were training 651 00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,640 pilots and they were getting maybe 20 652 00:21:41,909 --> 00:21:40,799 hours of basic training 10 hours in the 653 00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:41,919 spitfire if they were looking and then 654 00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:43,520 they were sent up to fight the germans 655 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:45,280 so that was your kind of training but 656 00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:46,880 that wasn't the entire training that was 657 00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:48,640 just to fly the plane but they were 658 00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:50,559 getting kind of ground lectures in in 659 00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:53,600 how to navigate and how to um you know 660 00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:55,280 how to tell what a german aircraft 661 00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:56,480 looked like rather than a british 662 00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,840 aircraft and then of course when they 663 00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:59,600 were sent up for advanced training they 664 00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:01,600 were showing how to fire the guns at at 665 00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:02,960 the most optimal distance and things 666 00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:04,640 like all this kind of thing was shown to 667 00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:06,000 them and then of course if you were 668 00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:08,080 obama crew then you had individual 669 00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:09,600 trades so if you're a pilot or a 670 00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:11,840 navigator you're gonna bombain a flight 671 00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:13,679 engineer all these different trades had 672 00:22:17,590 --> 00:22:15,840 their associated training which involved 673 00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:17,600 the ground lectures all things up in the 674 00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,919 air but you know for the time it was 675 00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:21,600 quite sophisticated they were quite 676 00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:23,360 lengthy and they wouldn't let people up 677 00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:25,760 into the air if they weren't good enough 678 00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:26,720 now 679 00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:29,600 the instruments of today are 680 00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:31,360 immeasurably different that you're 681 00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,960 you're looking at hundreds of millions 682 00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:35,280 of dollars just in one aircraft and that 683 00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:37,679 technology is we probably only hear 684 00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,280 about the tip of the iceberg in terms of 685 00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,679 what the readings these pilots can get 686 00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:43,679 what sort of instruments were on board 687 00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:45,919 at the time during the 40s 688 00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:48,240 that a pilot could get any sort of 689 00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,640 reading from but more importantly they 690 00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,640 could potentially have an effect or a 691 00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,559 reading when it comes to becoming in 692 00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,799 close counters with a ufo 693 00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:58,720 so you're talking about airborne radar 694 00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:01,440 um it was already sort of invented by 695 00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:03,520 the start of the war so we had a 696 00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:06,320 network of ground radar stations already 697 00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,799 in place at the start of world war ii it 698 00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,799 wasn't complete by any means it didn't 699 00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:12,720 ring around the whole country but we had 700 00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:14,559 it the germans had it as well but they 701 00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:16,480 were a little bit slower in developing 702 00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:18,080 some of it but they did have their own 703 00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,400 systems now in terms of airborne radar 704 00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:22,640 so a system uh a set that can go into an 705 00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:24,960 aircraft and fly that took a little bit 706 00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:27,840 longer and both germany and britain had 707 00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:29,200 a kind of cat and mouse game where we 708 00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:30,880 were just developing bits and they would 709 00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:32,480 develop their own bait and those counter 710 00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:33,679 measures and all the rest of it battles 711 00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,679 and forwards because it was a kind of an 712 00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:37,760 electronic say a cat and mouse game to 713 00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:39,200 say you would be on the ascendant at any 714 00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:41,120 one particular time uh ends during the 715 00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:44,000 war but airborne radar itself 716 00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:44,799 you 717 00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,240 the sets that they had were fairly 718 00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:48,080 rudimentary they didn't even have to 719 00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:49,039 start with they didn't even have 720 00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:51,120 scanners like you'd see on you know on 721 00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:52,799 an aircraft today whether the dish goes 722 00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:54,159 around in the foot in the nose of an 723 00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:56,960 airplane and also the the actual radar 724 00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:58,559 operator inside the airplane wouldn't 725 00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,919 have a kind of you know the little kind 726 00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:01,120 of display wouldn't go around with a 727 00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:02,400 little 728 00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:05,039 blip on it and what you see on the films 729 00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,400 he was looking at something that looked 730 00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:08,080 like an oscilloscope display so it's 731 00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:09,760 like a bouncing kind of like a kind of 732 00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:11,520 chart and he had to try and decipher 733 00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,440 that to work out what the altitude was 734 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:15,520 and the speed was and the bearing of the 735 00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:18,320 air of the target and they had to be 736 00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:20,080 actually vectored to the towards the 737 00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:22,880 targets by ground radar so somebody was 738 00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:24,400 radioing the pilot to say you've got to 739 00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:26,240 steer this way you you know the aircraft 740 00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:27,919 and such in front of you and only within 741 00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:29,200 about the next you know within about 742 00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,120 five miles of the target could the 743 00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:33,520 airborne set actually pick up the target 744 00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,039 they were trying to chase and shoot down 745 00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:37,760 so they were very very rudimentary very 746 00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:40,240 you know sort of just early kind of 747 00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,320 technology that wasn't that good but it 748 00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:45,120 was it was cutting edge for the time 749 00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:47,520 was there any cases of interference with 750 00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,200 any of the equipment on board the the 751 00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,760 aircraft you know malfunctions in terms 752 00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:53,200 of any of these encounters with fur 753 00:24:58,549 --> 00:24:54,480 fighters 754 00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:58,559 terms of the american sightings over the 755 00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,600 winter of 4445 both over 756 00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:04,080 belgium and france and and germany and 757 00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,600 also over northern italy because this is 758 00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:07,200 where a lot of them were seen they 759 00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:08,720 didn't register on radar there's 760 00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:10,480 actually a particular case where one of 761 00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:12,080 these lights was chasing around after 762 00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:14,559 this after an american night fighter and 763 00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:16,080 they managed to lose it eventually it 764 00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:18,960 flew off rather and the exasperated 765 00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:21,279 pilot radioed the ground radar station 766 00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:23,520 to say you know can you see it on your 767 00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:24,960 radar system and said well no you're the 768 00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:27,039 only person up there so most of the time 769 00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,720 they weren't being picked up on radar 770 00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:30,720 however there are effects because 771 00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:32,240 there's a case which i have in the book 772 00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:33,840 and it's right at the end of the raf 773 00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:35,679 section it's the last bombing raid of 774 00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,640 the war 775 00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:38,640 and a pilot 776 00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:40,640 who's an australian pilot on an raf 777 00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,880 squadron flying over germany and there 778 00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:44,880 was this huge what he called a blanket 779 00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:47,360 flew past the front of the aircraft 780 00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,720 and there were nowhere near the target 781 00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:50,880 there was still half an hour short of it 782 00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,880 and they had these twelve thousand pound 783 00:25:56,870 --> 00:25:54,720 what they call tall boy bombs it was a 784 00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:56,880 like a earthquake bomb it was designed 785 00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:58,240 to basically penetrate the ground 786 00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:01,039 explode and knock down railway violence 787 00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:03,120 or submarine pens this kind of thing it 788 00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:05,120 was it was an earthquake weapon 789 00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:07,440 and the bomb actually detached itself 790 00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:09,919 from the shackles of the the aircraft 791 00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,000 and bounced out of the bombay it crashed 792 00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:14,480 through the bombay doors and fell away 793 00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:16,159 because this thing had flung past them 794 00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:17,760 and they lost all power in the aircraft 795 00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:19,760 as well and the aircraft basically fell 796 00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:21,120 out the sky 797 00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,960 and he had been a test pilot and he knew 798 00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,480 how to restart engines all this kind of 799 00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,159 thing in a minimum amount of time and he 800 00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:28,080 managed to get the engines restarted and 801 00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:29,279 they pulled out the dye before they 802 00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:31,120 crashed in the ground but there was also 803 00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:32,559 effects on the crew because they got 804 00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:33,840 started they get really bad headaches 805 00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:35,200 and things like that and they were kept 806 00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:36,480 in hospital for a while according to the 807 00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:39,360 pilot's recollections um and some people 808 00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:41,360 might know of james mcdonald who was a 809 00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,840 scientist and he um he went around he 810 00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:45,360 was an australian but he went around um 811 00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:46,799 sorry he was american but he went around 812 00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:49,840 australia uh collecting our 813 00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:52,080 sighting reports uh by audio visual 814 00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:54,400 measure methods in the sixties he 815 00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:56,240 committed suicide at the end he was um 816 00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:58,240 he was castigated for his views about 817 00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:00,960 ufos and he was the one who actually 818 00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:03,039 interviewed this pilot and i actually 819 00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:04,960 managed to get a hold of a transcript of 820 00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:07,360 the interview and it's fascinating stuff 821 00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:09,279 about what this pilot says that happened 822 00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:10,720 but that's a particular case in the book 823 00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:13,679 so yeah there are effects um not only to 824 00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:16,000 equipment but also to personnel 825 00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:17,840 and that's that biological effects that 826 00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:24,870 the sixth observable yes the the famed 827 00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:27,279 sixth observable yeah so that's really 828 00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:28,960 interesting and you wonder how many 829 00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:30,880 pilots who did come into contact with 830 00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:33,679 these went on in life to have any number 831 00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,080 of health problems that i have no doubt 832 00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:38,320 would have been attributed to their time 833 00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:40,000 and conflict or the war or the 834 00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:41,600 conditions that they were they were a 835 00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:44,080 part of or just being put down to to get 836 00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:46,320 out biological effects of whatever 837 00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:48,159 normal life would have been at the time 838 00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:52,000 um did all sides report through fighters 839 00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:53,600 what was it coming from the germans the 840 00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:56,720 us the british and all other sides 841 00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:59,200 so certainly the raf and the american 842 00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,640 army air corps 843 00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,159 air force sorry they were definitely 844 00:28:06,389 --> 00:28:04,000 reporting things you can see things in 845 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,399 the official documentation now i wish i 846 00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:07,840 had a quid for every time somebody's 847 00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:09,200 come up to me and said well the germans 848 00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:10,960 saw them till you know graham well i've 849 00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:12,880 heard those stories i've read those 850 00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,000 reports in terms of they appear in on 851 00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:17,919 internet websites and things like that 852 00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:19,760 but actually tracking down the german 853 00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:21,760 sightings is much more difficult now 854 00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:23,360 that's a probably a combination because 855 00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:25,679 of the fact that the official records 856 00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:28,320 are in german and they didn't report 857 00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:29,679 things in the same way as the raf and 858 00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:31,919 the americans did and also the americans 859 00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:33,360 basically took a lot of the records away 860 00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:35,039 with them at the end of the war 861 00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:37,840 but also the germans destroyed a lot of 862 00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:40,559 their air force records um so there's 863 00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:42,240 like complete years which were you know 864 00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:44,960 either missing or half got half complete 865 00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:46,399 because of the kind of way that they 866 00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:48,080 destroyed the records before before the 867 00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,480 end of hostilities now 868 00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:52,000 the stories that i have been able to 869 00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:53,840 find for the book are few and far 870 00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:55,760 between but there are some 871 00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:58,960 however some of them are let's say you 872 00:29:01,590 --> 00:29:00,000 have to take them a bit of pitch and 873 00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:01,600 salt for various reasons which we can 874 00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:04,000 get into a bit later if you want so yes 875 00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:06,640 there are stories but their pedigree may 876 00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,880 be a bit suspect but i could i would 877 00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,240 love to be able to get into the archives 878 00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:12,240 sometimes i'm not fluent in german i 879 00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:13,520 know some of the german technical and 880 00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:15,360 military terms enough to be able to read 881 00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,360 things but being able to find the 882 00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:19,360 records and find details of foo fighter 883 00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:20,960 reports or similar might be quite 884 00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:22,000 difficult 885 00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,440 as far as i'm aware nobody in germany 886 00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:25,200 has actually done it but i would have 887 00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:26,240 thought that that would be the best 888 00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:27,600 place you know for somebody to start 889 00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:29,120 would be for a german national who's 890 00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,960 interested in ufos to try and have a go 891 00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:32,159 themselves 892 00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:33,919 in terms of russian reports yes there 893 00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:36,799 are russian reports as well um now you 894 00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:39,520 have to bear in mind that uf ufology was 895 00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:41,840 a forbidden subject in the soviet union 896 00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:43,919 albeit for a six-month period in about 897 00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:46,080 1969 when there was a bit of kind of 898 00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,840 glashnost over that and they were 899 00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:49,039 allowed to talk about it before they 900 00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:51,120 clamped down again now after the wall 901 00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:53,440 came down and the sight of the russia 902 00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:55,200 sort of opened up a bit people started 903 00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:56,799 traveling there and getting information 904 00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:58,640 and you your friend george laptop did 905 00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:00,720 that in 1993. 906 00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:02,720 um other people did as well and there's 907 00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:04,080 a lot of other people since so 908 00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:06,080 information came out during the early 909 00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,799 1990s about a whole range of ufo reports 910 00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:10,720 not just from the world war ii but from 911 00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:12,080 you know from other periods in history 912 00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:14,320 as well now there are stories that came 913 00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,919 out about that time from second world 914 00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:17,440 war and things that happened on the 915 00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:18,720 eastern front 916 00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:20,080 but 917 00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:21,520 my experiences of traveling around 918 00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:22,880 russia 919 00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,760 led me to sort of suspect some of these 920 00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:27,120 because there was always a lot of things 921 00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:28,880 going on where they realized that 922 00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:31,200 westerners were asking them for various 923 00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:33,520 things and prepared to pay money 924 00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,640 and of course if he didn't if they 925 00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,320 didn't have the goods they were quite 926 00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:38,080 happy to make things up you know we 927 00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:40,720 found that out you know by by pro they 928 00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,559 were promising things that if we would 929 00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:44,000 pay them some money or give them some 930 00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:45,360 bribes and they would deliver and it 931 00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:47,120 turned out it didn't happen even after 932 00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:49,120 you paid the money sort of thing so 933 00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:51,039 i can say that some of these reports may 934 00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:52,000 have been 935 00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:54,399 embellished or even just made up because 936 00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,559 you know to satisfy demand 937 00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,799 haven't said that some of the stories 938 00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:01,360 undoubtedly are true to that to a point 939 00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:03,519 so it's difficult to tell what the you 940 00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:06,159 know how true they are in the end 941 00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:08,720 um one of them appeared on a 1994 942 00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:11,360 network first documentary in britain uh 943 00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,519 and i do include that one in the in the 944 00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:15,200 book as well because that's quite a 945 00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:18,640 well-known story uh of a a 946 00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:20,240 a russian general 947 00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:22,080 she's a general in the 1990s when he 948 00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:23,679 told the story he ended up as a general 949 00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,480 of their rocket forces so he he actually 950 00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:28,559 you know rose up the ranks of uh of 951 00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:30,320 their military to a quite a high level 952 00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:32,720 at a very responsible level so he's not 953 00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:34,080 probably somebody who might just tell 954 00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:35,919 tall stories and he'd seen a kind of 955 00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:38,240 teardrop shaped thing which had um which 956 00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,000 had flown past his aircraft on a bombing 957 00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:42,240 raid in 1944 i believe it was so yeah 958 00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:44,240 the story from russia there are stories 959 00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:45,600 of course from the pacific as well but 960 00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,720 that's not something i covered in the 961 00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,480 boot because i kept the focus on europe 962 00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,320 but yeah there are stories from all over 963 00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:52,080 europe there are also stories from 964 00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:54,000 french civilians but then again those 965 00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:56,080 stories came out after the war because 966 00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:58,559 no self-respecting frenchman or woman 967 00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:00,159 was going to tell the german authorities 968 00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:01,840 they'd seen something strange because 969 00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:04,159 they'd end up in a labor camp 970 00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:05,600 now it's probably a good place to bring 971 00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,480 in 972 00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:08,240 your recent appearance at the ufo 973 00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,720 moneycon we attended and preston you've 974 00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,720 done a fantastic presentation and as 975 00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:14,399 part of this she also covered some 976 00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:16,880 stories from that time that you quite 977 00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:19,200 rightly pointed out were fabricated or 978 00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:21,440 hoaxes and you gave some nice examples 979 00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:23,760 of of why those were as well what is the 980 00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:26,480 background to some of these 981 00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:27,760 you have to work out what people 982 00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:29,279 motivation are just for like telling 983 00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:31,440 porkies in terms of you know ufo reports 984 00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:33,519 right through history anyway and some 985 00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:34,480 people 986 00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,760 will do it because they want to jump on 987 00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:37,679 a bandwagon some people do it for 988 00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:39,200 financial means but other people just 989 00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:40,480 want to do it because they want a little 990 00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:42,320 bit of that kind of stardom and i'm not 991 00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,320 sure entirely sure where the hoax has 992 00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:46,320 come from but i know what the one hoax 993 00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,919 came from an author in in france in 1970 994 00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:51,440 who actually wrote something in a book 995 00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:53,039 because he wanted to expose people who 996 00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:55,120 had been plagiarizing his work 997 00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:57,120 so that's where that hoax came from but 998 00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:59,440 there's also another one about um 999 00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:01,919 an rf pilot who said he was a pilot and 1000 00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:03,679 that turns out in a book by a fairly 1001 00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:05,679 well-respected british author in the 1002 00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:09,039 1990s um and it's the story of a of a 1003 00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,039 pilot who was at a intelligence briefing 1004 00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:13,440 after a raid he was with his crew and 1005 00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:14,559 they were taught and they were talking 1006 00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,080 to the intelligence officer but they 1007 00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,640 overheard or he overheard the next crew 1008 00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,000 at the next table 1009 00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:22,480 talking to another officer about some 1010 00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:24,080 spheres which had followed their 1011 00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,159 lancaster bolo 1012 00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:28,080 he gave the author of the book you know 1013 00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:29,600 some details about the squadrons flying 1014 00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:32,159 in and the time of the war where this 1015 00:33:36,950 --> 00:33:34,000 incident apparently taking place and he 1016 00:33:39,509 --> 00:33:36,960 gave a specific time now 1017 00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:39,519 with that information i could track down 1018 00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,440 his particular position in that squadron 1019 00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:43,440 and i go into this in the book so i 1020 00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,360 looked him up and it turns out he wasn't 1021 00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,760 a pilot he was a flight engineer so the 1022 00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:49,919 ranks wrong straight away i did a bit 1023 00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:52,240 more digging and it turned out that when 1024 00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:53,679 he said the raid occurred it didn't 1025 00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:55,120 happen then it happened about seven 1026 00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:56,559 weeks later 1027 00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:58,960 and when i looked at the raid 1028 00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:01,200 he wasn't he didn't feature on it 1029 00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:02,720 so i looked into a bit more in this 1030 00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:04,399 history and i could find from the 1031 00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:05,919 squadron documents that he actually 1032 00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:07,760 either stopped being aircrew on the 1033 00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:09,440 squadron who left the squadron at the 1034 00:34:12,869 --> 00:34:11,119 beginning of the month we said that the 1035 00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:12,879 bombing raid took place towards the end 1036 00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:14,560 of the month so he wasn't even flying 1037 00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:16,320 with a squadron so he couldn't have been 1038 00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:18,079 where he said he was and the position he 1039 00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,320 was at the time he said he was so that 1040 00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:22,480 story you have to think okay well you 1041 00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:24,879 know if all that's wrong then what's the 1042 00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:26,240 pedigree of the story is that is that 1043 00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,159 going to be you know kosher well or is 1044 00:34:31,990 --> 00:34:30,320 that just going to be a pack of lies so 1045 00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,000 i'm not going to say out now that it is 1046 00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:34,560 lies but the rest of the story is 1047 00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:36,399 incorrect so therefore you have to sort 1048 00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:38,000 of like you know treat the story itself 1049 00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:39,839 with a bit of a pinch of salt um and 1050 00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,200 there are other stories like that as 1051 00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:43,520 well and um 1052 00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:44,720 unfortunately that's the same right 1053 00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:46,320 through ufology you know if anybody 1054 00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,919 writes a book chances are there might be 1055 00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:49,599 one or two stories in it which may be 1056 00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:52,240 complete fabrications but these ones 1057 00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:54,159 have come up and you see them on 1058 00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:55,919 websites and you see them in other books 1059 00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:57,359 and i just want to make sure that people 1060 00:35:00,550 --> 00:34:59,200 are aware that these ones 1061 00:35:02,150 --> 00:35:00,560 probably aren't real 1062 00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:02,160 so you just don't perpetuate myths 1063 00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:03,040 because that's the last thing that 1064 00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:04,640 people want to do in the ecology you 1065 00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:05,599 know if you see something that's wrong 1066 00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:07,280 you should call it out 1067 00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:08,480 and i think that speaks to your 1068 00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,240 integrity and the integrity of the book 1069 00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:13,040 as well that you can point out that and 1070 00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:14,960 again like we try to do on the show and 1071 00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:16,480 if myself and dan are having those 1072 00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,599 discussions 1073 00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:19,839 like recently with the rubber duck flare 1074 00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:22,160 video where we would almost guarantee 1075 00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:24,160 it's nothing anomalous and as more than 1076 00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:26,880 likely a quadcopter drone with something 1077 00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:28,400 masking the heat signatures and i know 1078 00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:30,079 we're not an expert on this but we've 1079 00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:31,680 we've spoken to enough experts that 1080 00:35:35,589 --> 00:35:33,760 allow us to arrive at that conclusion 1081 00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:35,599 and i think you have to do that in the 1082 00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:38,400 subject otherwise you get into a pitfall 1083 00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:41,280 of everything's a ufo everything's from 1084 00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:43,599 alpha centauri or somewhere exotic and 1085 00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:45,440 that's just not the case and it's not 1086 00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:47,119 how the subject works 1087 00:35:51,829 --> 00:35:48,720 what i would ask you though graham is 1088 00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:51,839 was there a general consensus by those 1089 00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:54,560 pilots encountering these objects as to 1090 00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:57,359 what they might be seeing 1091 00:36:00,950 --> 00:36:00,079 they had various theories um at the time 1092 00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:00,960 that they 1093 00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:03,040 they knew what they weren't so they knew 1094 00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:05,760 there weren't things like so elmo's fire 1095 00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:07,040 and also those kind of things about you 1096 00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:08,480 know stat electricity charges ball 1097 00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,240 lightning they had an idea that it 1098 00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,079 wasn't these things that they they 1099 00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:14,320 they'd heard of because some of those 1100 00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:15,760 fires like things that flies up you know 1101 00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:17,520 girls up and down aerials or dances 1102 00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:19,359 around propeller blades it was a no 1103 00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:22,079 phenomenon they also had an idea that 1104 00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:23,280 they weren't 1105 00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:25,520 um some types of german kind of suitable 1106 00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:26,960 weapon because they didn't act the same 1107 00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:29,359 way but they were still kind of in that 1108 00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:31,040 mindset that because everybody else sort 1109 00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:32,480 of thought well legally german secret 1110 00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:34,160 weapons this is what they must be as 1111 00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:36,240 well so they were expecting the next 1112 00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:38,000 thing to come down the track they just 1113 00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:40,320 hadn't seen it so what were these lights 1114 00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:41,520 that were flying around chasing after 1115 00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:43,200 their aircraft well they must be german 1116 00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:44,480 suit weapons because what else could 1117 00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:46,560 they be so it was still that kind of 1118 00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:49,119 thinking but they weren't 1119 00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:50,320 able to they didn't have enough 1120 00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:52,400 information so they didn't have crushed 1121 00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,079 foo fighters if you like to look and to 1122 00:36:59,510 --> 00:36:56,240 examine um all they had were just know 1123 00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:59,520 these sightings of lights to go on so 1124 00:37:02,150 --> 00:37:00,880 they in the back of their minds they 1125 00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:02,160 kept thinking yes there's something 1126 00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:03,760 german and we're going to find out what 1127 00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:05,440 it is after the end of the war and of 1128 00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,640 course that was the thinking that went 1129 00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,560 right through the intelligence community 1130 00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:10,720 and also senior officers who had 1131 00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:13,440 anything to do with the subject so 1132 00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:15,599 um that was their thinking the crews 1133 00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:17,040 also at a lower level without so much 1134 00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:18,720 information just kept thinking well yeah 1135 00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:19,839 it's going to be something german that 1136 00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:21,040 we're going to find out you know after 1137 00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,400 everything's all after everyone's done 1138 00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:24,720 and dusted so that was 1139 00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,400 that was pretty much what they thought 1140 00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:28,560 of anything else was going to be german 1141 00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:29,760 was it going to be alien was it going to 1142 00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,160 be a flying saucer no nothing like that 1143 00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:33,839 this they didn't think in those terms at 1144 00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,440 all 1145 00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:37,520 graham what do you think people were 1146 00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:40,000 saying when they were encountering these 1147 00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:42,960 objects the foo fighters ufos but you've 1148 00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:44,960 described them previously you know we've 1149 00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:47,839 seen spheres cigar shaped objects long 1150 00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,880 torpedoes with portholes 1151 00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,400 what was 1152 00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,240 your best theory as to what they may 1153 00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:55,680 have been 1154 00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,520 so in the book i've basically set out to 1155 00:38:01,030 --> 00:37:59,440 say what they're not because i'm afraid 1156 00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:01,040 i can't sit here today and tell you what 1157 00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:03,839 they were and i don't really have too 1158 00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:05,599 much of a theory as to what they are 1159 00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:07,599 beyond that probably an earlier 1160 00:38:13,750 --> 00:38:10,720 manifestation of what was seen 1947 you 1161 00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:13,760 know onwards and that's all i can do 1162 00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:16,160 i can tell you that probably not with a 1163 00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:17,760 fair degree of certainty they're not 1164 00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:20,560 german super weapons and of any type 1165 00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:22,320 whether they were air jet aircraft or 1166 00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:24,480 rocket aircraft or rockets or something 1167 00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:26,240 else that they were cooking up you know 1168 00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,480 you talk about the deglocker which to me 1169 00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:31,520 is just a myth for various reasons which 1170 00:38:35,589 --> 00:38:33,839 i won't go into here but um there's a 1171 00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,599 whole load of reasons which i do go into 1172 00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:37,359 in the book which basically you know 1173 00:38:40,069 --> 00:38:38,240 sort of 1174 00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:40,079 turn the kind of idea that there were 1175 00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:41,839 german serial weapons on their head 1176 00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:44,000 because there's a whole range of reasons 1177 00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:46,240 why that simply couldn't be the case and 1178 00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:47,680 rather than spoil it for people you know 1179 00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:49,200 they can read the book and see my 1180 00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:51,200 reasoning um and if anybody does think 1181 00:38:55,030 --> 00:38:53,359 that they have a better idea and oh it 1182 00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:55,040 is this german student weapon and here's 1183 00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:56,720 the reason why then i'm all ears yeah 1184 00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:58,480 i'd love to hear from them but as far as 1185 00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,560 i can see and from the information on 1186 00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:02,400 either know about or read about or to 1187 00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:05,040 ask people about i can't see it and i 1188 00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,720 put all that reasoning down 1189 00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:08,880 that leaves the question as what they 1190 00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:10,720 what they were well if you can you know 1191 00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,320 get rid of the the things that they're 1192 00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:14,240 not that actually does leave in a better 1193 00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:16,160 place to try and work it out 1194 00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:17,599 haven't said that 1195 00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:19,599 you'll know you know ufology is another 1196 00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:21,440 thing you can pin down we don't know 1197 00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:23,119 what these things are 1198 00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:25,680 my best guess as you as you ask me is 1199 00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:27,040 literally that they are just a 1200 00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:28,960 manifestation of what we're seeing you 1201 00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,400 know from 47 onwards um but what that is 1202 00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:34,640 i'm sorry if anybody's thinking i'm 1203 00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:36,000 going to tell them right now they're 1204 00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:37,680 going to be sadly disappointed because i 1205 00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:39,200 simply don't know 1206 00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,480 was there anything that you really 1207 00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,400 wanted to get into the book but you 1208 00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:44,240 couldn't for any particular reason 1209 00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:45,520 you're a man who likes to report the 1210 00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:47,440 fact report the facts as you've just 1211 00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:49,359 kind of basically said there with your 1212 00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,680 statement previously maybe some cases 1213 00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:53,359 that you would have added but for for 1214 00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:55,280 lack of data they've been left on the 1215 00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:57,040 cutting room floor 1216 00:40:02,230 --> 00:39:58,960 yeah there's plenty of well there are 1217 00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:02,240 some russian and german cases which 1218 00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:04,240 you sort of look at and you think 1219 00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:05,920 there's not enough they're too flimsy 1220 00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,359 you know you don't even get dates you 1221 00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:09,359 don't get places they're just kind of 1222 00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:11,680 reports of the light uh and that's all 1223 00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:13,119 it is so you can't put them in there's 1224 00:40:16,309 --> 00:40:14,800 also a few raf cases like that as well 1225 00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:16,319 which i couldn't get enough information 1226 00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:18,400 on to actually it wasn't worth putting 1227 00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:19,920 in the book because you don't want just 1228 00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:21,520 to fill a book about cases of of a 1229 00:40:24,630 --> 00:40:23,440 strange light well a date where time and 1230 00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:24,640 all the rest of it 1231 00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:26,640 the german cases themselves i mentioned 1232 00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:28,000 before about not being able to get into 1233 00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:29,760 the official records that's what i 1234 00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:31,920 really sort of like you know 1235 00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:34,000 i'm most annoyed about if you like not 1236 00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:35,599 being able to do that 1237 00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:36,640 and that's just not the fact that 1238 00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:38,319 because covered i couldn't travel but 1239 00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:40,160 also the fact that i can't even begin to 1240 00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,400 work out where those records might be 1241 00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:44,400 that let alone look through them so that 1242 00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:45,760 that's something that you know have to 1243 00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:47,040 be done in the future by maybe someone 1244 00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:48,880 much more qualified than myself 1245 00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:51,280 so if i have any regrets it's not being 1246 00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:52,960 able to tell the other side of the story 1247 00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:54,240 because there's lots of anecdotal 1248 00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:55,440 evidence that say well the germans saw 1249 00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:57,440 them too and they weren't sure either 1250 00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:59,119 but proving that's a different matter 1251 00:41:01,349 --> 00:41:00,240 you know it's all very well saying 1252 00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:01,359 people coming up with stories saying 1253 00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:02,960 well that's what happened but yeah i 1254 00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:04,720 want you to point me to a file that can 1255 00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:06,720 show me that information or you know 1256 00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:07,920 some of the documents you know some 1257 00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:09,359 intelligence information all the rest of 1258 00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:11,040 it i just haven't seen it and i haven't 1259 00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:13,280 looked but i can't find it so that's 1260 00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,440 that's something i regret i'm afraid 1261 00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:17,440 that's that's that's a fair fair 1262 00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,480 assumption 1263 00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,240 before we get to listener questions and 1264 00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:22,240 some of those i've i wanted to follow up 1265 00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:23,520 on a few of your points but we've got a 1266 00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:25,040 few good listener questions that do that 1267 00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:26,560 kind of nicely for me and i want to give 1268 00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:29,040 the listeners the credit for that it is 1269 00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:31,680 crash retrieval week um or it's it's 1270 00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:33,440 about to have just finished potentially 1271 00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:34,800 depending if you're listening to this on 1272 00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,880 the patreon or apple premium or you're 1273 00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:38,640 listening to on the free interview when 1274 00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:40,960 it comes out are there any related 1275 00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:43,680 events around the time of world war ii 1276 00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:46,480 as you know would point to a potential 1277 00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:48,160 crash of any of these objects you 1278 00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:49,839 mentioned before pilots didn't collect 1279 00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:51,839 anything to say so but you would think 1280 00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:54,640 with so much artillery in the skies the 1281 00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:56,800 odds of something maybe coming down 1282 00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:58,720 would be a little bit higher 1283 00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:00,960 you think so and actually there aren't 1284 00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:03,680 many stories of um 1285 00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,200 but just full notes 1286 00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:07,440 there are um there are many stories of 1287 00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:10,160 landings so you know never mind crashes 1288 00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:12,160 but there are a few in terms of things 1289 00:42:15,670 --> 00:42:13,760 that are came down and may well have 1290 00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:15,680 been retrieved however these fall into 1291 00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:19,200 the brackets of kind of not flimsy but 1292 00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:21,280 not much information to go on so i'll 1293 00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:23,520 give you a couple um and they both 1294 00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:27,440 happened in russia and both in 1941 so 1295 00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:29,119 even before the german invasion kicked 1296 00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,760 off in june 1941 there's a report 1297 00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,119 of a 1298 00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:34,880 well they called it and the description 1299 00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,520 was an aircraft without wings 1300 00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:39,359 make of that what you want and it 1301 00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:41,520 crashed on an island in the middle of 1302 00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:43,040 the river dawn 1303 00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:45,680 in the middle of the city of rostov 1304 00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:47,680 which is the sort of if you go into the 1305 00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:49,040 kind of northeast corner of the cia's 1306 00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:50,960 azov which is just off the black sea 1307 00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:53,520 that part of the crimea uh of the 1308 00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:55,520 donbass area it's a big industrial area 1309 00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:58,079 in russia it was back in world war ii 1310 00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:00,400 and this this thing crashed there on 1311 00:43:03,510 --> 00:43:01,920 this island it's a small grass island 1312 00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:03,520 it's like a little park in the middle of 1313 00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:04,480 the city 1314 00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:06,880 and apparently if you believe the 1315 00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:08,079 reports 1316 00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:10,640 different matter 1317 00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:13,520 but truckloads of soviet soldiers came 1318 00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:15,359 and took it away 1319 00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,200 where they took it away from uh took the 1320 00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:19,680 way through sorry i just don't know um 1321 00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:20,960 and that's the end of the story so 1322 00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:23,359 there's one and then later on the same 1323 00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:25,839 year in in bella russia or what we call 1324 00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:27,520 now belarus 1325 00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:30,240 between two villages in rural belarus 1326 00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,400 another craft came down 1327 00:43:37,589 --> 00:43:34,319 and again the description is pretty 1328 00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,599 vague other than troops from the nkvd 1329 00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:39,359 which is the foreign to the kgb so that 1330 00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,520 was their political soldiers they came 1331 00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:43,280 along and whisked away and took it to a 1332 00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:45,680 facility in a place called omsk which is 1333 00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:47,760 on the other side of the ural mountains 1334 00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,079 in the in western siberia now at that 1335 00:43:54,069 --> 00:43:52,160 time of the war the russians were moving 1336 00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:54,079 all their heavy industry and their 1337 00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:56,160 technical bureaus and all the rest of it 1338 00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:57,839 to decide the euros to get them out the 1339 00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:59,520 way the german invasion so that 1340 00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:01,280 particular part of the story could be 1341 00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:04,079 correct but unfortunately just down to 1342 00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:05,839 kind of you know the things that they're 1343 00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:07,040 reporting in the soviet union the 1344 00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,960 secrecy and all the rest of it there is 1345 00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:10,480 probably no way that those stories are 1346 00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:12,079 ever going to be verified to a to a 1347 00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:14,480 degree that people would accept nowadays 1348 00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:16,000 in terms of trying to get at the bottom 1349 00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:17,280 of those stories 1350 00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:19,760 um so there's stories and there are 1351 00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,920 other ones in the war as well there are 1352 00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,760 a couple of german ones there's a one 1353 00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,119 that happens in poland but i'll leave 1354 00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:27,359 them for the book and ones that i 1355 00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:28,480 haven't included in the book because 1356 00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:30,240 they haven't beforehand this is supposed 1357 00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:31,599 to be a story of something that crashed 1358 00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:34,400 in poland in about either 37 or 38 that 1359 00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:36,160 the germans may have confiscated for 1360 00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:38,720 some strange convoluted reason and of 1361 00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:40,720 course there's a story of the the craft 1362 00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:44,319 in 1933 and italy as well so things did 1363 00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:46,720 supposedly happen but trying to get to 1364 00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:47,920 the bottom of the information is a 1365 00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:50,000 little more a little bit more difficult 1366 00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:51,920 the polish case i mentioned there is 1367 00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:53,599 about five or six pages and the book is 1368 00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:54,880 quite detailed it's probably the best 1369 00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:57,359 one but i'll leave that for readers 1370 00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:59,680 absolutely and that 1933 case is 1371 00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:01,200 something i just discussed with paulo 1372 00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,599 gizadi and the two-part interview which 1373 00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:05,040 has had a lot of great feedback in its 1374 00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:06,720 early days of release so again thank you 1375 00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:08,640 for everyone for checking that one out 1376 00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,400 uh listener questions graham let's get 1377 00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:12,400 to them and i appreciate graham was one 1378 00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:14,560 of the early listeners to the podcast so 1379 00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:15,920 it's nice being able to have a listener 1380 00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:18,000 on as a guest and put listener questions 1381 00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:19,760 to a listener himself 1382 00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:22,160 the first question graham is from beckya 1383 00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:24,240 and bikir says he doesn't actually know 1384 00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,040 a lot about fighter sightings are there 1385 00:45:31,829 --> 00:45:29,359 any similarities or differences to 1386 00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:31,839 modern ufo sightings by pilots that 1387 00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:33,520 stood out to you while doing research 1388 00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:35,040 for the book 1389 00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:37,359 so if you customize back to april this 1390 00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:39,760 year and the debrief i wrote an article 1391 00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:41,440 for them which 1392 00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:43,920 charted some of the similarities between 1393 00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:47,359 some of the 1943 reports and the tic tac 1394 00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:49,920 incident from in november 2004 1395 00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:51,760 and i know it wasn't particularly a dog 1396 00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:53,839 fight in the strictest sort of 1397 00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:56,160 definition of the term but in terms of 1398 00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:58,079 an engagement where an act you know a 1399 00:46:01,589 --> 00:45:59,920 modern day aircraft was chasing an 1400 00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:01,599 unknown object round around circles for 1401 00:46:06,550 --> 00:46:03,359 a bit before it shut off well that 1402 00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:06,560 actually happened in and twice in 1943 1403 00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:09,440 so you had two instances where raf 1404 00:46:13,589 --> 00:46:11,520 fighter aircraft well one was a 1405 00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:13,599 one was a hurricane and one was a bow 1406 00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:14,800 fighter that were both actually 1407 00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:17,680 operating in knight were chasing 1408 00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,000 strange lights that either latched onto 1409 00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:22,400 their tails or were following them 1410 00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:24,400 and in one case 1411 00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:26,720 the actual fighter pilot opened fire at 1412 00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:29,520 the uh the light again nothing happened 1413 00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:30,880 so and that happened a few times over 1414 00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:32,560 the course of the engagement so there 1415 00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:34,240 are similarities in some of the cases 1416 00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:36,160 from back then to now 1417 00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:38,400 they're not you know the kind of the 1418 00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:40,560 exact same thing but you can see that 1419 00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:42,800 you know some vague similarities and of 1420 00:46:47,589 --> 00:46:45,119 course throughout history from the 40s 1421 00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:47,599 50s and onwards you know uh pilots were 1422 00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:49,599 seeing strange craft at night and seeing 1423 00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:51,359 lights that they couldn't understand and 1424 00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:53,040 strange craft well again those kind of 1425 00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:54,880 things were seen in the war as well in 1426 00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:57,680 general terms so the the phenomenon from 1427 00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:00,400 the wall is probably exactly the same 1428 00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:03,359 as the things that happened afterwards 1429 00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:05,359 really good question baker thank you 1430 00:47:08,829 --> 00:47:06,960 james wants to know do you have any 1431 00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:08,839 plans for an audiobook 1432 00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,839 version ah this has been asked before 1433 00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,160 yes i would love to do an audio book 1434 00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:16,079 version of it it's just the planning and 1435 00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:18,720 getting it done um so it would have to 1436 00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:20,880 be costed and seeing you know what kind 1437 00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:22,720 of market there was for it but i have 1438 00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:25,280 had people come to me with ideas and uh 1439 00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:27,440 offers the help so if it does come into 1440 00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:29,200 anything and yes i would love to get one 1441 00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:30,400 out there 1442 00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:31,920 put me down can read a couple of those 1443 00:47:35,829 --> 00:47:34,319 pages for degree i'm at minimal cost a 1444 00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:35,839 fraction of a cost most people would 1445 00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,870 tyler wants to know graham was there 1446 00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:46,400 anything you found it during your 1447 00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:47,920 research for the book that really 1448 00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:49,920 surprised you 1449 00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:52,480 yeah the it was the breadth of the the 1450 00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,839 sightings because 1451 00:47:56,710 --> 00:47:55,280 everything that was actually in the 1452 00:47:58,630 --> 00:47:56,720 historical record that i could find 1453 00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:58,640 before i started reading the book 1454 00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:00,640 concentrated everything to about three 1455 00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:03,119 main places in europe one was uh 1456 00:48:07,990 --> 00:48:05,440 northern italy um and the one another 1457 00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:08,000 part was uh western uh germany in 1458 00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:09,760 eastern belgium and another part of 1459 00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:12,559 western uh germany and eastern france so 1460 00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:14,640 there was these three main areas but 1461 00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:16,079 actually as i did more and more research 1462 00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:18,079 and i found more more cases i found 1463 00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:20,160 other hot spots so i found one of the 1464 00:48:24,870 --> 00:48:23,119 balkans in right through 1944 and that 1465 00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:24,880 surprised me because that was somewhere 1466 00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:27,200 where just hasn't been associated with 1467 00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:29,200 foo fighter reports and yet these were 1468 00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:31,920 the same kind of sightings of strange 1469 00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:33,520 lights that were following aircraft at 1470 00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:34,480 one point 1471 00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,160 one bomber was actually surrounded by 1472 00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:38,400 six lights and that happened two 1473 00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:40,559 different times over a period of about a 1474 00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:42,240 week and they're quite similar to the 1475 00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:44,160 american stories from from belgium and 1476 00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:47,040 from france so that was a whole raft of 1477 00:48:50,950 --> 00:48:48,880 new sightings which were before the 1478 00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:50,960 established start of the foo fighter 1479 00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:53,440 reports that people knew about up until 1480 00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:55,920 the mid 90s but also it was sort of 1481 00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:58,400 moving the phenomenon away from these 1482 00:49:02,549 --> 00:49:00,160 recognized places to another part of 1483 00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:02,559 europe so you can take from that that 1484 00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:05,119 probably the phenomenon was everywhere 1485 00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:06,720 because i found reports from the bayer 1486 00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:08,640 biscay right across the eastern front 1487 00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:10,400 and from the north cape of norway right 1488 00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:12,079 down to north africa so they were 1489 00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:13,520 literally everywhere 1490 00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,599 and just let me follow up on that um 1491 00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:17,520 graham your geography's knowledge is far 1492 00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:19,280 superior to mine that mine's just pretty 1493 00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:20,640 poor 1494 00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:23,119 were these objects seen over land or 1495 00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:25,119 were they generally on the coast or or 1496 00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:26,559 out at sea 1497 00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:29,359 so most of the cases i found were of 1498 00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:32,000 aircraft which were flying over land 1499 00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:33,280 uh and that's just because obviously 1500 00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:34,800 bombers were flying you know mostly over 1501 00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:36,559 over europe to hit targets in germany 1502 00:49:39,109 --> 00:49:37,760 and elsewhere 1503 00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:39,119 now there were a whole load of 1504 00:49:42,309 --> 00:49:40,800 anti-submarine warfare squadrons which 1505 00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:42,319 were flying over the north atlantic and 1506 00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:44,720 over the bay of biscay those squadron 1507 00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:46,800 reports i haven't really gone into in 1508 00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,119 much depth i looked at a few but because 1509 00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:51,280 i was finding nothing i didn't bother 1510 00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,040 going through all of them because it 1511 00:49:57,910 --> 00:49:55,599 seemed a waste of time however i did 1512 00:50:00,390 --> 00:49:57,920 find some and there is one particular 1513 00:50:01,829 --> 00:50:00,400 american report from november 1942 which 1514 00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:01,839 happens over the bay biscuit and that's 1515 00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:03,920 why i mentioned that and they had just 1516 00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:06,960 sent aircraft to cornwall that month and 1517 00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:08,160 it was one of the first missions they 1518 00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:11,119 ever flew and they and a big light came 1519 00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:12,640 up behind their aircraft and followed 1520 00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:14,880 them and that was um they supposed to 1521 00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:16,480 took photographs of it 1522 00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:17,680 but those photographs have never 1523 00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:20,319 surfaced so yes there are stories over 1524 00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:22,400 water and there are a few others as well 1525 00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:24,000 there are stories from the pacific which 1526 00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:25,760 i really won't go into because again 1527 00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:27,040 that's that'll be on the focus of the 1528 00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:28,960 book but there are stories from from 1529 00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:31,280 sailors on ships in the pacific and in 1530 00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:34,079 the indian ocean so yeah you know it's 1531 00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:35,839 everywhere basically 1532 00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:38,000 now i let you off pretty lightly earlier 1533 00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:40,000 when i asked you potentially about what 1534 00:50:44,069 --> 00:50:41,520 some of these objects may be or what the 1535 00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:44,079 pilots thought they might be now justin 1536 00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:45,760 had a question so i'm going to ask you a 1537 00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:47,040 very similar question to what i asked 1538 00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:48,880 you for but through the the vehicle of 1539 00:50:53,190 --> 00:50:49,920 justin 1540 00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:53,200 everything you know or you've studied 1541 00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:55,359 over your lifetime in this subject what 1542 00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:57,520 did you think the fur fighters were and 1543 00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:59,280 that doesn't ask you what you think they 1544 00:51:02,470 --> 00:51:00,559 weren't 1545 00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:02,480 yeah they're from zara reticuli no i 1546 00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,920 look i don't know 1547 00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:06,240 i simply don't know and you know you can 1548 00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:09,040 ask me whichever way you like i'm not i 1549 00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:11,200 can't give you an answer um i keep 1550 00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:13,520 saying there's no experts in ufology so 1551 00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:15,119 anybody who tells you they know exactly 1552 00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:16,960 what's going on or they know the answer 1553 00:51:22,230 --> 00:51:19,040 to that then you know run a mile because 1554 00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:22,240 they don't usually um or well they don't 1555 00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,240 because we can't know everything about 1556 00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:26,720 an unknown phenomenon so you can only 1557 00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:28,319 say what they're not but you can't say 1558 00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:30,160 what they are until somebody until one 1559 00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:32,000 literally lands in your lap no one lands 1560 00:51:35,109 --> 00:51:34,160 on the on the white house lawn or 1561 00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:35,119 there's a big 1562 00:51:38,390 --> 00:51:36,800 big disclosure somewhere or there's some 1563 00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:38,400 more information comes out which leads 1564 00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:40,079 us to actually knowing what they are but 1565 00:51:43,589 --> 00:51:42,000 at this stage i'm afraid you know i'm 1566 00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:43,599 gonna chicken out and say look i don't 1567 00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:45,599 know what they are because i don't and 1568 00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:47,359 i'm not gonna make it up i'm not gonna 1569 00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:49,680 go down some road and say what they are 1570 00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:50,880 just for 1571 00:51:53,829 --> 00:51:51,839 um 1572 00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:53,839 so i can put something out there because 1573 00:51:57,589 --> 00:51:55,119 i read too many books like that in the 1574 00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:57,599 70s and 80s that you know people saw 1575 00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:58,880 lights in the sky so therefore they must 1576 00:52:03,270 --> 00:52:00,720 be from zeta reticuli or this kind of 1577 00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:03,280 thing and you get the position where if 1578 00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:04,640 you say things like that you end up 1579 00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:06,480 having to defend that position when new 1580 00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:08,079 information comes along and you just 1581 00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:10,640 look stupid so i'm never gonna put 1582 00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:12,160 myself in that position i'm afraid i'd 1583 00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:13,520 rather just you know sit back and say 1584 00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:14,960 look i'm sorry i don't know what they 1585 00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:17,119 are and if that if people don't you know 1586 00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,800 don't buy the book for that reason or 1587 00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:20,400 they don't think it's worth getting then 1588 00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:22,400 that's fair enough but at least if you 1589 00:52:26,309 --> 00:52:24,079 do look at it you'll see what they're 1590 00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:26,319 not and that's just as valuable as 1591 00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:28,160 finding out what they are because at 1592 00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:29,839 least you can rule things out and that 1593 00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,000 leaves less you know kind of things to 1594 00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,640 look at when you're going forward 1595 00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:36,400 now by process of elimination and 1596 00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:38,240 whatnot and what you've looked at what 1597 00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:40,480 these things aren't on a scale of one to 1598 00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:41,440 five 1599 00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:46,400 extremely likely where would you sit on 1600 00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:48,640 the possibility some of these objects 1601 00:52:52,450 --> 00:52:50,800 being of non-human intelligence or 1602 00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:52,460 origin 1603 00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:54,079 [Music] 1604 00:52:56,309 --> 00:52:55,200 i'll tell you rather than answer that 1605 00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:56,319 i'm going to do a politician i'm going 1606 00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:57,520 to give you a different answer if that's 1607 00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,480 all right 1608 00:53:02,150 --> 00:53:00,400 i've got a theory but it's not a one 1609 00:53:03,670 --> 00:53:02,160 which i subscribe to it's just one that 1610 00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:03,680 i'm you know it pops into my head 1611 00:53:07,510 --> 00:53:05,040 occasionally i think well it's as good 1612 00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:07,520 as any other let's say 1613 00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:09,440 500 years time that they invent a time 1614 00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:11,040 travel machine 1615 00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:12,880 if i wanted to go back in history and 1616 00:53:16,470 --> 00:53:14,480 look to a certain period of time in the 1617 00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:16,480 past world war ii is where i would go 1618 00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,559 because that's what i'm interested in so 1619 00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:20,640 why wouldn't that work for somebody else 1620 00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:24,240 so you know a series go that is 1621 00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:26,160 one that could be is just as good but 1622 00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:28,160 equally it could be it could be somebody 1623 00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:30,000 from another dimension or from another 1624 00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:31,680 place so 1625 00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:34,400 any theory is as good as any other um 1626 00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:36,720 but you know as to which one is correct 1627 00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:38,640 who knows it could be either of them it 1628 00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:39,839 could be none of them become something 1629 00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:41,680 completely different so i'm you know i'm 1630 00:53:46,230 --> 00:53:43,920 gonna just back out i'm afraid i'm i 1631 00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:46,240 can't give you another sorry i love how 1632 00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:47,920 you won't answer on aliens but you're 1633 00:53:51,349 --> 00:53:49,599 quite happy to throw out there that 1634 00:53:53,829 --> 00:53:51,359 there's a chance it's future humans oh 1635 00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:53,839 well you know 1636 00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:55,359 i didn't say actually believe it i just 1637 00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:56,480 said yeah that's why it keeps popping 1638 00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:58,800 the head occasionally but no 1639 00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:59,760 you've done that thing where you threw 1640 00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:00,960 it out there and of all the things you 1641 00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:02,240 could have thrown out there you go folks 1642 00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:04,400 future humans graeme rendell's next book 1643 00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:07,040 um and we have a question we have a 1644 00:54:12,069 --> 00:54:08,640 question to finish off before the quick 1645 00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:12,079 fire round uh from dave dave sends me in 1646 00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:14,000 a lot of really good questions as well 1647 00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:15,280 but he asks 1648 00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:17,520 has graham done any work on the reported 1649 00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:21,040 sightings of fleets of uaps flying over 1650 00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:23,119 the north pole northern europe russia in 1651 00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:25,839 the 50s and early 60s and the worries 1652 00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:27,760 they caused in terms of being 1653 00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:30,240 misidentified as missiles and 1654 00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,960 potentially starting a third world war 1655 00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:34,640 no dave i haven't looked at those in a 1656 00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:36,720 great detail i've i think i've got an 1657 00:54:41,349 --> 00:54:39,040 idea which reports you you're referring 1658 00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:41,359 to and yes you're right you know that 1659 00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:42,799 kind of thing would have been made 1660 00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:45,359 people very very nervous and of course 1661 00:54:49,510 --> 00:54:47,599 you've got stories of you know um 1662 00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:49,520 missiles being turned off and turned on 1663 00:54:53,589 --> 00:54:52,400 by by the by these kind of objects in 1664 00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:53,599 the 70s 1665 00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:54,480 so 1666 00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:56,640 there's a lot going on with that but no 1667 00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:57,920 i'm afraid you know the focus of the 1668 00:55:02,230 --> 00:55:00,720 book i wrote um was purely simply about 1669 00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:02,240 the second world war but there are a lot 1670 00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:04,240 of interesting stories about missiles 1671 00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:06,000 about aircraft and about sightings of 1672 00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:08,160 things over the pole which demand 1673 00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:11,119 attention um someday i might get to that 1674 00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:12,240 who knows 1675 00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:13,599 he also says that would be a good 1676 00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:15,839 subject for a thunder follow-up book for 1677 00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:18,079 you as well graham 1678 00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:19,520 you mentioned they are just on the 60s 1679 00:55:24,150 --> 00:55:21,440 and 70s that there were reports of 1680 00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:24,160 course of missiles being turned on and 1681 00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:26,160 off is that something you're aware of 1682 00:55:30,150 --> 00:55:28,240 the any of the superpower nations or 1683 00:55:31,750 --> 00:55:30,160 otherwise having that sort of technology 1684 00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:31,760 to do that 1685 00:55:35,430 --> 00:55:33,440 not them aware of 1686 00:55:37,190 --> 00:55:35,440 because that would involve a whole range 1687 00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:37,200 of things that they just wouldn't be 1688 00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:38,880 possible because of the kind of 1689 00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:40,640 fail-safes and all these other things 1690 00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:42,160 that you had to do to actually you know 1691 00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:45,119 to arm missiles and to fire them um 1692 00:55:48,870 --> 00:55:46,799 i can't see how another power will be 1693 00:55:50,549 --> 00:55:48,880 able to do that short of 1694 00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:50,559 having somebody actually an operative in 1695 00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:52,880 the base uh you know who could ferret 1696 00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:55,440 away and change things i can't see that 1697 00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:57,760 somehow i just don't see it that's fair 1698 00:56:01,030 --> 00:55:59,760 enough so if those reports are correct 1699 00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:01,040 you're looking at potentially some sort 1700 00:56:04,630 --> 00:56:02,559 of non-human intelligence is what you're 1701 00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:04,640 saying graham that's something 1702 00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:06,000 something behind our understanding 1703 00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:10,150 and let's finish up graeme with a quick 1704 00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:12,079 fire round a few topics that we've not 1705 00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:13,599 got anywhere in the air given movement 1706 00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,880 right back almost eight decades in this 1707 00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:18,240 discussion which i've really enjoyed 1708 00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:19,200 because it's been something that i 1709 00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:21,200 wasn't too familiar with and i'm i'm 1710 00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:22,480 still in the when you're scratching the 1711 00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:23,920 surface of the knowledge that you've got 1712 00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:25,839 but let's talk about very briefly a 1713 00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:27,200 couple of other subjects what are your 1714 00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:29,760 thoughts on bubbles 1715 00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:31,920 i blow hot and cold with bob zaza i was 1716 00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:34,400 at you know when he came out and was in 1717 00:56:39,990 --> 00:56:37,040 1989 uh i was really interested in the 1718 00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:40,000 stories that came out then and uh i 1719 00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:41,520 started hearing about more and more 1720 00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:43,359 about his background etc through the 1721 00:56:47,589 --> 00:56:45,280 desert rat newsletter which glenn 1722 00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:47,599 campbell did out of rachel nevada in the 1723 00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,240 early 1990s and the 1990s so it was 1724 00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:52,720 fascinating and actually back then i was 1725 00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:54,720 more inclined to lap it up just without 1726 00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,000 question 1727 00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:58,000 and then at times i've looked at things 1728 00:57:02,309 --> 00:57:00,079 and thought okay maybe that's not as 1729 00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:02,319 kind of true it's made out to and then 1730 00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:03,680 something else comes along and i think 1731 00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:06,000 okay you know that's that's more like it 1732 00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:07,040 so 1733 00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:08,559 i i have a kind of love-hate 1734 00:57:12,309 --> 00:57:10,480 relationship with bob lazar even though 1735 00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:12,319 i don't know the guy it's just that you 1736 00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:15,520 know i can't pin it down and i just 1737 00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:16,960 don't know enough 1738 00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:19,119 to actually satisfy myself one way or 1739 00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:21,040 the other so i'm just quite happy 1740 00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:24,000 nowadays just sit back and just wait for 1741 00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:25,920 developments and one day we'll find out 1742 00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:27,839 one way or another i'd like to believe 1743 00:57:31,589 --> 00:57:29,520 you know that what he's saying is true 1744 00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:31,599 and i do believe george knapp in what he 1745 00:57:36,470 --> 00:57:34,880 says so um you know that's another thing 1746 00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:36,480 which makes me kind of think well i 1747 00:57:39,910 --> 00:57:38,720 really should believe this but yeah i'm 1748 00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:39,920 just the point where i set on the fence 1749 00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:42,160 i'm afraid like a lot of things 1750 00:57:46,309 --> 00:57:45,520 your thoughts on luis elizondo 1751 00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:46,319 wow 1752 00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:48,960 a guy who sacrificed a lot 1753 00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:51,119 to come you know with the information he 1754 00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:53,599 did to the table um 1755 00:57:56,870 --> 00:57:55,599 and all the kind of things he's endured 1756 00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:56,880 since then 1757 00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:03,430 your thoughts on skinwalker ranch of 1758 00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:04,960 course that's being right back in 1759 00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:07,040 everyone's uh the forefront of our minds 1760 00:58:12,069 --> 00:58:09,280 with the book released by colm calahar 1761 00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:12,079 james akatsuki and george knapp 1762 00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:13,440 funny enough i just finished that book 1763 00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:16,000 today uh i was i read through it in a 1764 00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:16,799 day 1765 00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:18,720 um 1766 00:58:21,510 --> 00:58:19,920 there's definitely something going on 1767 00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:21,520 there that's 1768 00:58:26,069 --> 00:58:23,920 you know in inconvertible uh you could 1769 00:58:27,510 --> 00:58:26,079 look at that and just think 1770 00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:27,520 i wouldn't want to even go there and 1771 00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:28,799 spend the night if that's the kind of 1772 00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:30,400 thing that you know you take away things 1773 00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:31,920 away from you and they come home with 1774 00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,880 you 1775 00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:34,400 haven't said that 1776 00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:36,000 i then looked at the i've watched some 1777 00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:37,520 of the documentaries you know the the 1778 00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:39,040 series about that was at the the hunt 1779 00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:41,280 for skyward here and they left me 1780 00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:42,880 nonplussed 1781 00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:44,319 i just wasn't that impressed with the 1782 00:58:48,309 --> 00:58:46,160 way that the stories were told because 1783 00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:48,319 it seemed to be done for a mass mass 1784 00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:50,400 audience in that particular style where 1785 00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:52,400 they have recaps every 10 every 10 1786 00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:54,240 minutes and they have to do dramatized 1787 00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:55,680 reconstruction and all that and that 1788 00:58:59,190 --> 00:58:57,680 just left me cold i'm afraid but in 1789 00:59:00,630 --> 00:58:59,200 terms of you boil it down to what's 1790 00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,640 going on there's definitely something 1791 00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:02,640 happening there and it's really weird 1792 00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:04,960 but i i think we're gonna have to wait 1793 00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:06,000 and i think it's gonna be one of those 1794 00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:07,599 things that it might come out at some 1795 00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:08,799 stage but i think we're a long way off 1796 00:59:11,349 --> 00:59:10,079 finding out what the hell's going on 1797 00:59:15,109 --> 00:59:11,359 there 1798 00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:15,119 do you prefer the term ufo or uap 1799 00:59:18,549 --> 00:59:17,280 well i used to be old school i liked ufo 1800 00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:18,559 but actually i'm quite getting around to 1801 00:59:23,670 --> 00:59:20,400 the uap now i use it a lot in the 1802 00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:23,680 writing i do for uap media uk so i have 1803 00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:25,839 to say that really do i but no i am 1804 00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,680 actually i'm quite i'm quite happy with 1805 00:59:31,190 --> 00:59:29,520 the new phrase 1806 00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:31,200 i mean you could have called it uaps 1807 00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:33,200 before roswell in that case i could have 1808 00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:35,760 yeah but that wouldn't have sold with it 1809 00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:37,359 you can do that in the next the next 1810 00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:38,880 version next generation of the book and 1811 00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:40,079 correct it 1812 00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:41,920 finally graham this is one we discussed 1813 00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:43,760 earlier there's a question that i think 1814 00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:45,280 in the near future i'm going to phase 1815 00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,200 out of the quickfire and it's been a bit 1816 00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:49,440 of a staple since the beginning so one 1817 00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:51,520 of the last people i'm going to ask this 1818 00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:55,200 to what does disclosure mean to you 1819 00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:57,599 capital d disclosure to me means you 1820 01:00:01,910 --> 00:59:59,200 know aliens landing on the white house 1821 01:00:03,430 --> 01:00:01,920 lawn uh little d disclosure is the kind 1822 01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:03,440 of soft disclosure so you're going to 1823 01:00:06,789 --> 01:00:05,839 drip feed of information that leads us 1824 01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:06,799 to 1825 01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:08,640 an overwhelming conclusion that there's 1826 01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:10,799 something going on and to a point where 1827 01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:12,000 the powers that be and the people who 1828 01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:13,440 make the decisions 1829 01:00:18,870 --> 01:00:15,839 can't hide it any longer and they've got 1830 01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:18,880 to come clean so that's the two kind of 1831 01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:21,359 strands of disclosure that i think about 1832 01:00:24,069 --> 01:00:22,960 and and what do you think we're getting 1833 01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:24,079 if any 1834 01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:25,440 we're getting the second i don't think 1835 01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:27,359 we'll ever get the first i think that 1836 01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:29,359 that time would have happened by now 1837 01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:30,640 because of you know all the sightings 1838 01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:32,480 that we've had over the last 80 years i 1839 01:00:35,990 --> 01:00:33,920 think if they were going to drop on the 1840 01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:36,000 white house lawn and announce themselves 1841 01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:37,920 like the day the earth should still film 1842 01:00:41,589 --> 01:00:39,440 i think that would happen 1843 01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:41,599 i think that that time's gone i think 1844 01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:43,520 it's going to be a drip drip a very slow 1845 01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:46,079 drip feed of information which basically 1846 01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:47,920 either backs the pentagon or whoever 1847 01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:49,599 into a corner to the point where they 1848 01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:51,839 can't hide it anymore 1849 01:00:55,589 --> 01:00:53,760 and it'll come out it might not come out 1850 01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:55,599 straight away but it'll come out into a 1851 01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:57,760 form where people go yeah there you go 1852 01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:58,880 and it might actually be quite 1853 01:01:01,670 --> 01:01:00,319 underwhelming for people because they'll 1854 01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:01,680 have had so much information about so 1855 01:01:04,870 --> 01:01:03,440 much time to assimilate it but they'll 1856 01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,880 get there but i think that's how it'll 1857 01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:06,319 come out 1858 01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:08,720 graeme how can people follow you and of 1859 01:01:13,109 --> 01:01:11,520 course how can they purchase your book 1860 01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:13,119 so the books available on amazon doesn't 1861 01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:14,240 matter where you live in the world 1862 01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:16,559 whichever local amazon service whether 1863 01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:19,359 it's dot it or dot uk or or dot com 1864 01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:21,119 whichever one you use you can buy from 1865 01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:22,559 there if you search for my name graeme 1866 01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:24,400 rendell you'll find the book you'll also 1867 01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:26,240 find the siberian book there 1868 01:01:30,870 --> 01:01:28,720 um as far as contacting me well at 1869 01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:30,880 border 750 is my twitter handle there's 1870 01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:32,640 a link tree reference on my profile 1871 01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:34,079 there and you can find out the things 1872 01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:37,040 i've written about for other uap issues 1873 01:01:40,710 --> 01:01:38,960 and everything else to do with me is on 1874 01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:40,720 is on the profile there 1875 01:01:44,150 --> 01:01:41,920 and again i'll thank you graeme on 1876 01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:44,160 behalf of uap media but should a part of 1877 01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:45,440 for the work you're doing that as well 1878 01:01:49,270 --> 01:01:47,680 which has been amazing since you came on 1879 01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:49,280 board you're a very welcome addition to 1880 01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:51,440 the team um what is next for you have 1881 01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:54,400 you got any plans for a follow-up book 1882 01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:56,640 i do yeah i've i've sort of doing the 1883 01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:58,880 first tentative um explorations into the 1884 01:02:02,069 --> 01:02:00,720 pacific wall from the foo fighters so 1885 01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:02,079 there's a whole raft of sightings that 1886 01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:05,920 happened from 1942 to 1945 and and some 1887 01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:07,200 of them are quite different they're more 1888 01:02:11,670 --> 01:02:08,960 to do with balls of fire 1889 01:02:13,349 --> 01:02:11,680 and strange lights rather than craft but 1890 01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:13,359 as i dig into it who knows what i'll 1891 01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:14,640 find 1892 01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:16,079 excellent graeme well i look forward to 1893 01:02:19,430 --> 01:02:17,359 that and i know you'll be back on the 1894 01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:19,440 podcast long before we see that second 1895 01:02:23,349 --> 01:02:22,000 book enemy on ufos so thanks very much 1896 01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:23,359 for your time graeme 1897 01:02:27,270 --> 01:02:25,680 thank you very much that is all for this 1898 01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:27,280 week's show thank you very much for 1899 01:02:31,270 --> 01:02:29,280 listening please remember to leave the 1900 01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:31,280 podcast to review on your chosen 1901 01:02:35,829 --> 01:02:34,000 platform you can like retweet and 1902 01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:35,839 subscribe that would all be very much 1903 01:02:40,230 --> 01:02:37,920 appreciated the shows are being uploaded 1904 01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:40,240 onto youtube as we speak more and more 1905 01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:42,240 you can sign up at patreon.com forward 1906 01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:44,880 slash that ufo podcast to access shows 1907 01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:47,359 ad free as well please get in touch on 1908 01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:49,680 twitter facebook instagram that ufo 1909 01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:52,079 podcast of course on twitter it's at 1910 01:02:56,549 --> 01:02:54,400 ufouapam 1911 01:02:59,640 --> 01:02:56,559 and again folks as always keep looking 1912 01:03:15,029 --> 01:02:59,650 up you never know what you might see 1913 01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:16,230 for the parliament 1914 01:03:19,029 --> 01:03:17,520 the little [\h__\h] hovered right inside 1915 01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:19,039 of my window when i shoved out the 1916 01:03:26,690 --> 01:03:21,039 screen he made it an issue i don't think 1917 01:03:26,700 --> 01:03:35,670 [Music] 1918 01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:37,109 i can't imagine how it could have been 1919 01:03:50,950 --> 01:03:38,799 any better 1920 01:03:57,029 --> 01:03:53,349 i jumped back nearly kissed myself and i 1921 01:04:00,870 --> 01:03:58,870 on my head and window was weird and 1922 01:04:02,230 --> 01:04:00,880 everything was red i helped out my boys 1923 01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:02,240 they thought this was noise they thought 1924 01:04:39,190 --> 01:04:14,990 [Music] 1925 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:44,380 consider your serious consider your lies 1926 01:05:07,109 --> 01:04:59,270 [Music] 1927 01:05:13,900 --> 01:05:07,119 it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a